Would you rather hire a cook with experience or a certificate?

Discussion in 'Professional Chefs' started by sgmchef, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Certificate

    12.5%
  2. Experience

    87.5%
  1. ktanasy

    ktanasy

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    I would hire someone with experience.
    In the US your required to be certified in health laws and procedures.
     
  2. linecookliz

    linecookliz

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    Depends on how much labor cost I have to play with. Experience is preferred though.
     
  3. NnamAries

    NnamAries

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    I am very big on experiences, but above all, I'd like to work with someone who doesn't work too much by the book.
     
  4. cheflayne

    cheflayne

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    but did they read the book? Do they understand the book? Or are they flying blind?
     
  5. harrisonh

    harrisonh

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    no sgmchef, I did not miss the point. YOU posted a false dichotomy
     
  6. PoorlyChef

    PoorlyChef

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    Hire for attitude and work ethic first, then skill.. Don't need any prima donnas with attitude..
     
  7. Seoul Food

    Seoul Food

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    I never get enough applicants with either of these things to make it a hard choice.
     
  8. chefbillyb

    chefbillyb

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    My employee base was so bad at one time the only requirement was being able to walk. It got worse and that requirement became negotiable. If I were to open any business I would design it to make sure I didn't need employees. I could write a book on how many excuses I got for not being able to work. I have had so many employees begging for more hours only to call in sick the next day. I would have employees leave to make .25cents more someplace else. I could go on forever.....
     
  9. chefross

    chefross

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    I take regular drives to far away places to chill and check out the food scenes.
    I have been doing this for more than two decades.
    Why am I still seeing these young inexperienced Chefs creating dishes, that while they look pretty, are lacking basic cooking technique as well as seasoning?

    Ask the wait person if the kitchen can do a Filet Mignon "Bleu"....they say yes. It comes to the table and is in no way, shape, or form, charred on the outside while raw/rare inside.
    Go out to breakfast and order an omelette that comes to the table brown and cold. Ask for well done English Muffin and get an anemic flimsy something that can bend in half without breaking.

    My point? The restaurants are not interviewing, and testing their potential hires.
    Someone made the point that even with experience, and education, a person can still fail miserably.
    I am continuously bummed at out food service industry for not petitioning the government for more recognition as an actual profession.
    The NRA does little to that end.
    If it were mandatory for cooks to have to go through apprenticeships, and continued learning to get a license in order to cook, it would change the face of the restaurant industry.
    But, as most things in life go, just because one has a license, doesn't make them good.
     
  10. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Well, no, of course just because you have a license it doesn’t guarantee that you will do things the right way. My drivers license does not guarantee that I won’t blow through a 4-way stop.

    What the license DOES guarantee is that I have no excuse to plead ignorance.
     
  11. cheflayne

    cheflayne

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    Love it!!! Great analogy.

    I currently have a coworker that has culinary school training, ACF certifications, and is working towards her 4 year degree in hospitality management. Neither of us is Chef of the workplace. If I were Chef, she would probably wind up employed elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  12. Seoul Food

    Seoul Food

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    A big problem here is the mandatory increases in minimum wages. Any line cook worth their salt will try to go on to a higher paying position if they can if they see that your business has to hire school kids at a few bucks cheaper than them. The problem with certifications being mandatory is you would basically invalidate a huge market of the food service industry that is all experience based training. And cooks that are already in the workforce may not have the time to go back and retrain under some program to get a degree of some sort. I'm talking basically about positions lower than middle management, as I'm assuming we are referring to chefs hiring cooks and kitchen staff. Where I am inflation is making it so wages for skilled work cannot keep up with non skilled and the bottom line of the businesses cannot handle increasing skilled labor costs so they end up going with less experienced, less skilled employees.
     
  13. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Well, yeah, that’s a good argument against certification.

    But I’m curious about what the situation will be in 10 years from now...

    When the cooks with no certification but lots of work experience age out, who will replace them?
    Five years ago most kids figured out that a culinarily school diploma could not get them a wage that would pay their school fees AND their rent, so that crowd has dried up.

    So in 10 years from now who’s left, who wants to work for sh*tty wages?

    In 1984 I entered the culinary scene in Switzerland. Two years prior a huge change took place in the hospitality industry— the hotels and 5 stars realized that they couldnt attract new apprentices, and experienced cooks were leaving in droves. What could it be? The unanimous answer was, those slackers wanted a 5 day work week. The hospitality industry was the last—the only, industry in Switzerland that had a 6 day work week. A lot of table banging and screaming from the hoteliers, but in the end a 5 day week for the hospitality industry was introduced. The workforce never got back up to to pre 1980 levels, but at least it could attract and retain cooks and apprentices.

    I’m a cook for life and have been in this industry since I was 15. If the N. American hospitality industry wants to attract and retain cooks, it better come to some table banging and screaming conclusions on how to survive the 2000’s......
     
    phaedrus, fatcook and frankie007 like this.
  14. chefross

    chefross

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    Perfect.


    And Seoul Food.
    My point was exactly that. Mandatory licensing WOULD invalidate those places that can't meet even basic standards.
    To that end, cooks WITH experience would easily pass any licensing right? HA-HA!

    Again, my issue here would be WHO makes the testing program to create the licensing?
    Foodpump is right....Something has to change.
    I too have been a cook since 15 years old and I have seen a lot of change and not all of it was good.
     
  15. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Well, who creates testing programs for electricians, plumbers auto mechanics? Are all of these trades recognized in each State?

    In Europe apprenticeships are part of schooling each student gets, so the teaching, testing, and certification fall under the dept. of education.

    In Canada the ITA (industry training authority) a gov’t body is responsible for the testing and certification for all recognized trades.

    Is it true that the C.I.A. ( not the spies...) doesn’t even recognize J.W. credentials or A.C.F. Credentials?
     
  16. phaedrus

    phaedrus

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    There is also unionization and some advocacy for labor in Europe. In the US things are run completely by the Capital side with little to no regard for labor rights or wages. Union busting and pro-Capital government has created a race to the bottom for wages and working conditions. More regulation leading to [what is now considered] low skill jobs being converted to skilled/white collar is the opposite of what the owners of the country desire. The ruling class has no interest in shorter work weeks for the plebes. In their minds we have too much time for mischief already.
     
  17. cheflayne

    cheflayne

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    And because I make low wages, mischief is what I go for because it is cheap. It is is free!!!. Not only that but I am creative which makes mischief easy to come up with. :~)
     
  18. chefross

    chefross

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    Another point here is supposedly when educated, skilled workers are in the workforce, they tend to save money for the company, as opposed to non-educated experienced employees, who make errors because of lack of education.
    I go back and offer my same comment.
    When a worker gains experience, they are educated only in the places they worked. Take them from that place and put them in another and some of their experience will take them only so far and then they end up having to unlearn and relearn bad/good habits.
    Now take an educated employee. They can go to any place with their knowledge and be productive and comfortable.
    Education and experience while they may go hand in hand, can not be graded as one over the other.
    While I would take an experienced applicant or an educated one with experience, the point is how they perform on the line or in production. That to me tells me more than the resume or a face to face interview.
     
  19. Varun

    Varun

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    In my view gathering certification of a specific skill or knowledge might help to create an impact over others and a proof that one is eligible to work regarding that same.
     
  20. Varun

    Varun

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    I think certificates are the one's proof that showcase his/her abilities and approve that the person is capable os a specific skill.