why valhrona and not callebaut

Discussion in 'Professional Pastry Chefs' started by rajeev, May 16, 2012.

  1. rajeev

    rajeev

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    Dear all,

    I have worked with both valhrona and callebaut chocolates but it always amazes me why valhrona is first choice and not callebaut for most. It would be great if personal experiences are share on tasting notes and on the job experience.
     
  2. chefross

    chefross

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    To me they are similar. I have had luck with both. Either preference or price...
     
  3. jcakes

    jcakes

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    For me, it comes down to price.  I can get Valhrona Manjari for about $11/pound and the 60/40 bittersweet from Callebaut for about $8; depending on what I'm making and what the price point is, I might be able to use either one, but I am very careful about what I use the Manjari for because it's so much more expensive. 
     
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  4. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Valhrona makes about 10 varieities of couverture, and Callebaut about 30, not including the Cacobarry lines.   Valhrona focuses on the high-end stuff and has spent a lot of money on advertising and promotion as THE high -end chocolate.  And it is, it is good stuff.

    Callebaut is the Chevy here.  The 60/40 or the 70/30 is working stuff, bland, consistant, one-sided mono-flavour.  Perfect for high-volume productions and day-day use.  No surprises in flavour, but quality and consistancy are very good.  The quantity of cocoa content DOES NOT equate to better quality chocolate-- the quality of the beans and the manufacturing process does. 

    Don't let anyone kid you that "__________" (Belg, French, Swiss, German, etc.) Chocolate is THE best.  As the Frainch would say: Boule-cheet.  Cocoa only grows in hot, tropical countries. It never has, and never will grow in Europe or N.America (excluding Mexico) 

    Most of the Callebaut in N.America comes from a plant just outside of Montreal, in a town called St. Hyacinth.  I've been inside the factory, it produces some 80,000 metric tonnes of the stuff per year for the N. American market.  Cocoa beans come from the tropics, sugar from local sources or S. America, dairy from local sources, made in Quebec,...whatever it is, it ain't Belgian except for the name.

    hope this helps.........
     
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  5. canadatogo

    canadatogo

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    I used a fair bit of chocolate at college, but we were kind of restricted in what types, so I think I've only tried one type of callebaut white chocolate, and one type of valrhona ivoire. I found valrhona to be a lot less sweet, and good for different uses, but I found that the callebaut white chocolate that we used had the sweetness that most people associated with white chocolate. I guess because of the price, I've always been able to get my hands on much more callebaut than valrhona, and I'd need to look at the specific application to decide which chocolate would work best for me.
     
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  6. rajeev

    rajeev

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    No doubt Both Valhrona and Callebaut are top gun in Chocolate industry but when it comes to certain flavoured chocolate like caramel, honey etc Callebaut takes a upper hand on the basis of flavour only!
     
  7. chefdave11

    chefdave11 Banned

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    I've been working exclusively with Callebaut for the past 17 years - but that's because it's the best Kosher and Pareve (no dairy) chocolate I can find!
     
  8. foodpump

    foodpump

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    I understand that Callebaut is one of the few that offer Kosher inspection on their chocolates.

    However, in Europe the labeling laws are very different.  If chocolate contains ANY milk powder--even 1%, it can not be labled as chocolate, it must be labled as "milk chocolate".

    In the US. things are different.  "Bittersweet" must contain a minimum of 35% cocoa content, after that, anything goes, and some of the large (!) mnfctrs do put in milk powder.  "Semisweet" is the same--minimum of 35% cocoa content, "Sweet"--you guessed it, 35%.  Milk chocolate must contain a minimum of 10% cocoa content.
     
  9. chefdave11

    chefdave11 Banned

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    I'm not going to claim to be an expert on chocolate, but my understanding is that it's referring to either the style of chocolate, or at the very least, there are traceable roots of the company back to Belgium?

    There's French cuisine outside of France, California cuisine outside of California, Philly cheesesteaks outside of Philadelphia...
     
  10. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Most of the chocolate shops and restaurant menus here brag:  "the best Belgian chocolate" and menus, "The best French chocolate.  Nothing about " Belgian style, French style".  Granted, the Belgians had colonies in Africa, the French all over the place, and these areas have their own characteristics.

    Actually, all chocolate is Swiss style.  It was Rudolphe Lindt who invented the Conch, the machine that gives chocoalte is suave smoothness, and who came about the idea of adding extra cocoa butter to the masse.  Prior to this,  chocolate was drunk, and what solid chocolate there was, was dry, crumbly, and cement-like when melted.
     
     
  11. chefdave11

    chefdave11 Banned

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    Callebaut.  Established in Belgium in 1911.

    I guess, in regards to products that I love, I lose the cynicism associated with the bs oft associated with marketing departments.

    Barry Callebaut has production plants all over the world, not just Canada.

    So, Hondas built in Detroit or Tennessee would be American cars, not Japanese?

    Doing a bit of googling now..

    There’s a world of difference between Belgian, Swiss and French chocolate.
They are all world famous, yet oh so different! Belgian chocolates are extremely fine, offering excellent taste and quality thanks to the selection of the world’s best cocoa beans. French chocolate became renowned because French gastronomy promoted very dark and extremely refined chocolate in luxurious desserts. The secret of Swiss chocolate: famously for, creamy milk, appreciated worldwide for it’s seductive silky smoothness and purity.
     
  12. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Yup, all over the world.  One of the last facilities that Callebaut bought was "Carma", a small-ish factory located just outside of Zurich, Switzerland. Carma had been making some chocolate, but a lot of pastry products for well over 30 years prior toe the buy-over.  The big get bigger

    Now, google the history of Cacoa-Barry...............
     
     
  13. clove48

    clove48

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    ...and I'm partial to Scharffen Berger, made in the 'ol USA (San Francisco, CA)
     
  14. bekazu

    bekazu

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    I'm a bit late to the party but I would like to add my 2 cents...

    We started using Callebaut on price point but when we switched over from the  Belcolade the guests noticed and all of them were positive about the switch.  It melts smoother and IMO has a much more consistent quality. 

    I love Valhrona for eating and panna cotta where the flavor of the chocolate is the star, but once it is "watered" down with cream, butter, egg whites, etc.  there is simply not enough flavor difference to justify the price.