Whole wheat saga continues

Discussion in 'Pastries & Baking' started by nostalgia, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. nostalgia

    nostalgia

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    Ok, back to the BBA whole wheat recipe.

    I put together the soaker with stone ground rye flour. It was 4.25oz flour to 6oz water. Covered, left on the counter.

    Then I put together the poolish. I used KA whole wheat flour. 6.75oz flour to 6oz water plus 1/4tsp yeast. The directions say to "mix the flour and yeast, and add the water until it forms a thick paste. Stir only enough to hydrate the flour."

    First problem: 6oz of water was not even enough to pick up all the flour. I had to at least double the water to make something that didn't resemble Play-Doh.

    I got it to a "thick paste" consistency, and waited a few hours for the first bubbles. I then popped it in the fridge overnight.

    Tonight, I put the 9oz of whole wheat flour in the bowl of my mixer, added the 1 1/3tsp salt, and 1tsp IDY. I just now realized I forgot to add the 2Tbs honey :( Darn. Anyway...

    Next the soaker and poolish went in. Stir until it all came together, then onto the Kitchenaid with the dough hook. 8 minutes in there, and about 1/4 cup of water later, I finished kneading by hand.

    About another 6 minutes by hand, and the dough passed the windowpane test, and was a little on the sticky side. I went for more hydration than last time, in hopes of opening up the crumb.



    2 hours in my 70 degree bathroom produced a nicely doubled dough ball.



    Shaping and panning produced these. I was careful to degas the dough as little as possible, but they did end up quite small. They weight almost exactly 18oz each.



    90 minutes of proofing at 70 degrees yielded this disappointing sight:



    They're slashed and baking now. More to come.

    -Joe
     
  2. kylew

    kylew

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    Here's the Whole Wheat Recipe.

    Whole Wheat Oat Bran Bread
    • 20 Oz. Whole Wheat Flour
    • 1/3 Cup Oat Bran
    • 2 tsp. Instant Yeast
    • 2 tsp. Turbinado Sugar
    • 2 tsp. Salt
    • 8 Oz. Skim Milk - Scalded and cooled to 110?
    • 5 Oz. Water
    • 1 Large Egg
    • 2 TBS Canola Oil


    Now What?

    Whisk all the dry ingredients together in the bowl of an electric mixer fitted with the paddle. Add the wet ingredients and mixed thoroughly, 1-2 minutes. Switch to the dough hook and knead until the gluten is fully developed and the dough passes the window pane test, about 10 minutes.

    Place the dough in an oiled container, cover with plastic wrap and let ferment until at least doubled in size, 1 - 1 1/2 hours.

    Divide dough in half. "Pre" shape dough into very rough logs and let rest about 20 minutes. Shape loaves and place in 8" x 4" pans. Proof the loaves for 1 - 1/2 hours until at least 1 1/2 hours.

    Bake @350? for about an hour, rotating half way through the baking. Cool completely on rack before slicing.
     
  3. panini

    panini

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    Kyle,
    curious about the type of yeast you're using? Also, with the packaged yeast from the store, can it touch the salt?
    pan
     
  4. kylew

    kylew

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    I use SAF Instant Yeast, which I buy in 1 LB packages from King Arthur. I think that there is less risk of salt killing instant yeast than active dry yeast. As a rule I try to avoid contact anyway. I just dump them on opposite sides of the bowl until I'm ready to mix.
     
  5. kylew

    kylew

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    Then I put together the poolish. I used KA whole wheat flour. 6.75oz flour to 6oz water plus 1/4tsp yeast. The directions say to "mix the flour and yeast, and add the water until it forms a thick paste. Stir only enough to hydrate the flour."First problem: 6oz of water was not even enough to pick up all the flour. I had to at least double the water to make something that didn't resemble Play-Doh.

    Are your sure your scale is accurate, assuming you are weighing your ingredients? 6 oz. of water and 6.75 oz. WW flours is 89% hydration. this is pretty wet. This morning I mixed 4 oz. of water and 6 oz. of KA WW flour and it was a gooey mess. At 12 oz of water an 6.75 oz of flour you have 178 % hydration. That's not Play-Doh, that's soup!

    Tonight, I put the 9oz of whole wheat flour in the bowl of my mixer, added the 1 1/3tsp salt, and 1tsp IDY. I just now realized I forgot to add the 2Tbs honey Darn. Anyway...

    While not essential, honey provides important food for the yeast. In WW bread the yeast needs all the help it can get.

    Next the soaker and poolish went in. Stir until it all came together, then onto the Kitchenaid with the dough hook. 8 minutes in there, and about 1/4 cup of water later, I finished kneading by hand. About another 6 minutes by hand, and the dough passed the windowpane test, and was a little on the sticky side. I went for more hydration than last time, in hopes of opening up the crumb.

    From the looks of the top pic, your dough is too wet. When I add up all of the numbers you have listed I come up with 20 oz. of water and 20 oz. of flour, which equals 100% hydration. It should be closer to 75%-80%. Something very funky is going on with your measurements :)
     
  6. nostalgia

    nostalgia

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    I'm fairly sure. Even if it was off, since I used the same scale for flour and water it should work. I'll sacrifice a bit of flour to test it out tonight. Actually, I'll just try the recipe again. Do you think I should break down and add the oil? I'd like to stay away from the egg if possible, as I share my bread with my vegan friends from time to time.

    Yep, I realize that, and was pretty bummed when I realized I had forgotten it. Although my last 2 tries used it, and were almost exactly the same.

    You're right, the dough is ont the wet side. Not ciabatta wet, but still a bit on the sticky side (I kneaded in some more flour after that pic was taken. Probably about 1/8 cup worth).

    I haven't cut them open yet, but I'm not too hopeful. There was no oven spring to speak of. I also have to get some razor blades. Attempting to slash the dough with a knife is an exercise in futility.

    Thanks again for the input; it's greatly appreciated.

    -Joe
     
  7. kylew

    kylew

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    When I was playing with my recipe I took the out the egg. This is what it looked like.

    [​IMG]

    Have you ever made this bread, using all the ingredients from Reinhart's recipe, successfully?

    I still think there is information missing. There's no way 6 oz. of water doesn't hydrate 6.75 ounces of flour, as in your poolish step.
     
  8. nostalgia

    nostalgia

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    No, I have never made this bread successfully. Since he notes the oil and egg as optional, I took that to mean the recipe will work without them, and I'd rather not use them if I don't have to.

    Back on the subject of the poolish. Being an engineer, I went scientific for some testing.

    I measured both by volume and weight this time, to make sure everything was accurate. The recipe again, for reference:

    Whole-Wheat Poolish
    1 1/2 cups (6.75oz) whole-wheat flour
    1/4 tsp (.028oz) instant yeast
    3/4 cup (6oz) water

    I put the bowl on my digital scale, and zeroed it. I measured out 1 1/2 cups of whole wheat flour by volume into the bowl. The scale read precisely 6 3/4oz.

    I then put my liquid measuring cup on the scale, and zeroed it. I put 3/4 cups water by volume in the measuring cup and put it back on the scale. It read precisely 6oz.

    I put the bowl with the flour back on the scale and zeroed it again (this is the method I used the first time). I then poured the water from the measuring cup into the flour. When I was done, the scale read 6oz.

    I grabbed my spoon and stirred. This is what I ended up with:



    That's not what I think of when I think "poolish". He said it should "bubble" in 2-4 hours. That mass is never going to bubble. There was still some flour left in the bottom of the bowl, too. So yes, all of my measurements were done correctly the first time. Any idea what could have gone wrong?

    Thanks,

    -Joe
     
  9. nostalgia

    nostalgia

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    No ideas on the poolish? I'm curious to any theories why I'm getting such stiff dough from such a high hydration percentage.

    This weekend I tried a different whole wheat recipe, this one using butter. The shaped loaves before their final proof were 28 ounces each, 10oz more than the recipe I have been trying. They filled out the pans MUCH better, and made gorgeous loaves. Granted, they weren't 100% whole wheat, but it reinforces my theory that there's just not enough dough in this recipe.

    -Joe
     
  10. scott123

    scott123

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    Gluten holds quite a bit of water. The KA wheat flour could be higher in protein than the flour Reinhart used to develop the recipe.

    Also, depending on the brand/manner in which the flour is stored, it's moisture content can vary. I'm sure that Reinhart used relatively fresh/high turnaround CIA baking class whole wheat flour, not stuff that was sitting on the supermarket shelves for weeks on end.

    That's my best guess regarding the poolish- a higher protein, older/drier flour.