Vietnamese pork roll meat in bulk

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by hobmi, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. hobmi

    hobmi

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    Hi

    I want to make pork banh mi for a function.

    I plan to cook 20kg of pork shoulder butt and am looking for the right char siu recipe.

    I'm thinking I would marinade the meat for an hour.  Long enough?

    Should I add salt and water brine to the marinade, to ensure meat is tender?

    Can I cook 20kg in the oven at once?  In roasting trays, with racks.

    Thinking it should be cooked at about 145 degrees; will use a thermometer to check temp.

    Your thoughts please.

    Thanks
     
  2. french fries

    french fries

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    Char siu pork won't work for a Banh Mi. Why not simply look for a Banh Mi recipe? All you need is fish sauce, honey, sugar, pepper, scallions and garlic. 

    As for the marinade time, an hour might be enough if you were slicing the meat into thin steaks... for a whole pork shoulder I would marinate the meat for at least one day, preferably two or three days. Even then your pork isn't going to be as strongly flavored as if you cut it in thin steaks and marinade the steaks for a few hours. 

    Out of curiosity, how many Banh Mi are you making? 

    How big is your oven? Is it convection? How big are your rack trays? If all those butts are sitting right next to each other you'll end up with 20kg of steamed pork. 
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  3. hobmi

    hobmi

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    Thanks for your reply.

    I thought char siu pork was what was traditionally used?

    Thinking 20kg meat should make 200.

    I haven't got an oven yet!!!
     
  4. french fries

    french fries

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    I have been editing my answer as you posted yours so you'll see more stuff in there now. 

    No, Char Siu (Chinese bbq) is not traditionally used for Banh Mi (Vietnamese sandwhich influenced by the French). It's quite different really. I mean you could do whatever you want but the combinations don't ... "taste good in my mind". 

    20Kg for 200... yeah that sounds about right, you could probably get away with a bit less meat. 
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
  5. hobmi

    hobmi

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    Thanks for your reply.

    So banh mi meat has to be grilled, not roasted?  I was hoping to roast cos grilling is messy!

    Is pork shoulder butt the right cut of meat?

    cheers again
     
  6. teamfat

    teamfat

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    From what I have read, banh mi is pretty open as to the filling.  A grilled char siu style pork could be tasty.  If you do want to stray from the conventional and roast the pork in an oven, look into something like Korean bo ssam

    mjb.
     
  7. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    I've seen char shu in banh mi often, both in Vietnamese cookbooks and eateries. Usually in the dac biet cold cut version a long with pork loaf, ham and the pate.
     
  8. hobmi

    hobmi

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    Thanks for your help folks.  I'm getting hungry! 
     
  9. french fries

    french fries

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    Me too actually. I could get a Banh Mi right now. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/licklips.gif  Please do let us know what you decide and how it turns out! We love stories! 
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  10. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    Pork shoulder is my preferred cut for Char Shu. It's fat content keeps it moist where leaner cuts can be dried out in cooking. You'll need to cut the roast to shape, long strips about 2" wide, up to an inch thick and as long as works with the cut of meat. Bigger cuts don't have the right ratio of highly seasoned exterior to blander interior. 

    As to mess, char shu is a high sugar marinade. It will burn and scorch at the drop of a hat. I actually recommend indirect heat on a covered grill compared to oven roasting as  the drips and smoke from cooking in the oven are pretty annoying to clean and deal with as well. If you do cook it in the oven, use two oven racks.  Grease the upper rack. (Lay the  upper rack on the open door of a dishwasher and spray it--easy clean up) On the lower rack set a large rimmed pan filled with water to catch the drips from roasting strips. Lay the strips directly on the upper rack. You need all sides to form a crust and roasting on a pan prevents that as the bottom surface steams and stays sticky moist. If you can hang your strips on hooks from the upper rack, so much the better for clean up and crust creation. 

    I'm a fan of the Lee Kum Kee pre-fab marinade in jars. It's beat everything I've tried making from scratch for this.

    How are you sourcing your buns? Have a recipe for them to share? They're hard to get right. 

    @teamfat, I had a Korean short rib with kimchi banh mi at Oh Mai on Monday. It was pretty good. 
     
  11. french fries

    french fries

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    The Banh Mi sandwhiches I've had from the local Vietnamese joints were made with grilled thin strips of marinated pork - not sliced roast. I'm sure you can make Banh Mi with a sliced roast, it will just be a little less flavorful (less marinade taste and less charred/grilled taste). From what I've read since I originally answered this thread, the original Banh Mi meats were closer to French cold meats (ham, pâté etc....) so a sliced roast may actually be closer to the original Banh Mi. 

    The bread used was either a baguette cut to the size of the sandwich, or a mini-baguette just the size of the sandwich. 

    Pork shoulder would work great both for a roast or sliced into thin strips, marinated and then grilled over high heat. 
     
  12. teamfat

    teamfat

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    I've driven by there many times, one day I WILL stop and eat!

    mjb.
     
  13. vic cardenas

    vic cardenas

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    +1 on Oh Mai.
     
  14. michaelga

    michaelga

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    Pork Belly - sliced and marinated in a Korean style paste - then grilled over low coals.   Combined with the usual salad and herbs with a really good schmear of pate on a crusty fluffy baguette.  

    Is the one that I grew up with and love
     
  15. french fries

    french fries

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    Sounds very tasty Michael. Out of curiosity, what is "Korean style paste"?
     
  16. michaelga

    michaelga

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    For me it's a variation on Bulgogi

    [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:punctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument></xml><![endif]6-8 scallions, both whites and greens chopped

    3 tbs Korean chili pepper paste (gochujang)
    2 tbs soy sauce
    2 tbs rice wine
    2 tbs sugar
    1 tbs sesame oil
    2 tbls minced garlic
    1 tbs grated ginger
    1/2 tsp black pepper

    [if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif][if gte mso 10]><style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable{mso-style-name:"Table Normal";mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0;mso-tstyle-colband-size:0;mso-style-noshow:yes;mso-style-parent:"";mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt;mso-para-margin:0in;mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt;mso-pagination:widow-orphan;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:#0400;mso-fareast-language:#0400;mso-bidi-language:#0400;}</style><![endif]Mix it all together and marinate meat - it's quite thick so it sticks to the meat as you grill.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  17. teamfat

    teamfat

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    I've been meaning to try a bulgogi style marinade on pork.  Maybe this evening, we'll see.

    mjb.
     
  18. michaelga

    michaelga

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    It's really awesome with the pork belly, just watch it like a hawk it will burn/flare up the moment you take your eyes off it.

    Indirect heat or a plancha is a must.
     
  19. french fries

    french fries

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    That sounds really good, thanks for sharing!