Upgrade??

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by joe78, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. joe78

    joe78

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    Hello there

    This is the sort of question I know you get all the time but here goes. I have a fair few knives, several Globals, I find hard to sharpen and easy to dull. Some wusthof which are ok at least they are easy to sharpen. A couple of Tojiros I like and after reading some advice on here I got a Mac Mighty which I found a game changer. So, for a bit more money than the Mac could I be amazed at the difference again? Or would it be a bit of a waste? I have enough speciality knives I'm looking for a go to general prep knife. At work I have large chopping boards and plenty of room. I use an edge pro to sharpen and a ceramic rod to hone. Alright I sometimes use a diamond steel on my German knives a work if in a rush. Anyway any advice/recommendations would be welcomed.

    Ps I'm from England and the Mac cost roughly £100 my money

    Thanks

    Joe
     
  2. rick alan

    rick alan

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    A MAC Mighty for 100 sterling is a great deal.

    That's a heavy knife, you mind something lighter?

    Why do you feel it was a game changer over the Tojiro (DP?).

    I just heard a very good report of the Tojiro 521 (PM steel) from a very knowledgeable source.  Nice flat looking profile and thin behind the edge, considerably superior steel to the MAC.  It's not unusual for PM steels to hold an edge 3 times longer than good conventional stuff, if that's a game changer.  Sounds a great deal here, and I have seen them for less even.



    Rick
     
  3. atatax

    atatax

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    Heh, i started with wusthof and tojiro dp, then got a mac pro gyuto, then got a itinomonn kasumi gyuto.

    I would agree that the mac was a game changer when i got it.

    I'm no expert, but at mac level and beyond, it seems like its all personal preferrance. What kind of steel you prefer, what kind of geometry, what kind of handle.

    Maybe just find a cheap carbon steel gyuto and see if the easier sharpening justifies the incrased care needed not to rust. A wa handle is light, t3nds to make the knife more blad3 heavy which you may or may not like. Wa handles also gives you better access to the heel while sharpening imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
  4. benuser

    benuser

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    [​IMG]
    Change the angle to reach the heel
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
  5. joe78

    joe78

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    Wow thanks so much guys. Change the angle to reach the heel?? Sorry how does one go about this and how much will I notice the difference? Apologies for my ignorance.

    I would like a lighter knife Rick, that seems to be the way I am going. Yes my Tojiros are DPs. Using the same, probably not great, sharpening skills on the Mac as the Tojiros and other knives I just seem to get a far better longer lasting end product. After a go on a leather strop I feel it is truly sharper than anything I have owned. But matbe that's because I keep it in my knife case at work so nobody else touches it.

    That Tojiro you sent the link to sounds like a great shout. The edge retention would be great. I love knives and have far too many that are very similar if I'm honest. I'm pretty much looking for one great one that makes my job easier with better results rather than another much of a muchness pretty good one.

    Thanks again for your input guys
     
  6. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    There are many ways to sharpen.  I don't switch hands, so this is how I learned to do it:  

    Mostly sharpening at an angle, but on the left side, sharpen the part near the heel perpendicular to the stone so you don't catch the handle.

    @joe78   At the level you are looking at, there are plenty of options, but nobody can tell you what is the right knife for you.  I like a certain type, but it is not good for 99% of people out there.  So tell us what you don't like about your mac or tojiro in terms of sharpening, edge taking, cutting performance on different products, and maybe you will get more specific recommendations.
     
  7. rick alan

    rick alan

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    I believe I now understand the MAC revelation.  VG10 isn't the easiest steel to sharpen, as it produces a tenacious burr.  I thought that the sharpening part might be the revelation with the MAC over the Tojiro DP and others you have.

    Just so far as the 521 is concerned, I'm pretty sure it will go the MAC one better for keeness, and burr removal should be a breeze.  Both finish and do touch-ups by stropping on a 6K stone.  I'm not sure if bare leather has much effect on PM steels, all those vanadium/tungsten/niobium carbides.  I think the edges succumb to carbide drop-out before loss of true.

    Rick
     
    benuser likes this.
  8. joe78

    joe78

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    Thanks very much for sharpening advice. Anything like that is just as valuable to me as the knives I have. Any tips on how to get the best out of my tools are greatly welcomed. While I appreciate every person has a different preference for what they want from a knife, there is the fact I very much doubt I will get to try anything before I buy it, hence the shout for help from you guys.

    I can find the previously mentioned tojiro 521 for £86, so am thinking that will take some beating as its cheaper than my Mac!! Or am I wrong??

    So what I do and don't like about my Knives:

    Globals: Like the way they look.....about it

    Henckels / Wusthof (find them similar) Easy to sharpen, I like the Wusthof classic handles, love how easy they are to sharpen. Don't like the fact that anything over about 15cm blade is very think and hard to slice nicely with and I find that I get less use out of the length of the blade than I do from say the tojiro or Mac.

    Tojiro: The best I have other than the Mac. I can't say there is any fault in them. Just me not being able to sharpen them so well maybe and just don't feel as good in my hand as a wusthof or mac, like you've mentioned a personal thing.

    Mac: It's the best I've had for getting sharp, staying sharp, not wedging in good and snapping it. Its hard for me to put it down when its the best I've used in every way. Ok, the mac logo on the knife does make me a little angry to look at!!

    Tsuki: I had a 14 cm wusthof santoku which I gave to my brother. I really enjoyed that knife but he loved to look of it. Replaced it with one the same size of this brand. I know this has nothing to do with this discussion, but anyway... I find this knife the hardest of all to sharpen and doesn't last ten mins of use. Is it just me or is this brand rubbish?? This style and size of knives is one I use loads and loads so was wondering if this one is worth sticking with??

    Got a Tojiro big almighty today. No idea what I will use it for but for £16 its fun to walk around the kitchen with!!

    Thanks again for your patience everyone
     
  9. joe78

    joe78

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    Tojiro black finished shiro-ko kasumi Gyutou  white carbon steel. Just noticed it online. Very cheap!!! Any good or a step in the wrong direction??
     
  10. galley swiller

    galley swiller

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    joe78, can you post a link, so we can see what you are referring to?

    GS
     
  11. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    this thing? http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121753029073?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

    It's sold other places as Tojiro Shirogami ITK

    I have the petty from this line.  It's pretty thin actually. The blade road was uneven, like parts of it would not make contact with the board.  The kurouchi comes off pretty fast even unintentionally.  Fit and finish is atrocious on the handle itself, on how the handle is mounted, sharp spine, sharp choi, uneven bevel.  Steel is chippy.  It's white steel so fixing problems on stones is not terribly hard, it sharpens out really fast.

    I'd pay a little more for something better, but I understand your buying options are limited over there.

    If you haven't already check out

    http://japanesechefsknife.com/ - $7 shipping worldwide from seki city japan

    http://japanesenaturalstones.com/ - shipping from denmark, free shipping worldwide if you meet the minimum order
     
  12. joe78

    joe78

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    To tganks millionsknives that is the link to the one I was looking at. Hadn't seen the Danish store before so thanks. The more I'm looking the more confused I get. I know it's a personal choice but would the tojiro 521 seem a good shout for a choice in price range for mainly not too hard veg prep? JCK Original 輝 KAGAYAKI Aogami No.2 or is something like this playing a similar game??
     
  13. benuser

    benuser

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    The Kagayaki Aogami#2 are beautifully made, but a bit fat behind the edge. You might consider the Fujiwara FKH carbons. Or the last Hiromoto AS 190 santoku.
     
  14. joe78

    joe78

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    thanks that sort of information is brilliant for me. I.don't want to make adjustments to the knife. Will look at those shortly Benuser
     
  15. joe78

    joe78

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    Now with that Hiromoto  Santoku you have made me think again. I already love my Mac so thinking it seems silly to buy a replacement for my best knife. Surely replacing my rubbish santoku would make more sense as I love that style of knife when in going for more speed and a little less refine work. So to keep asking is there a stand out between the Hiromoto and a Tojiro F-517??
     
  16. benuser

    benuser

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    The Hiromoto AS santoku is very thin behind the edge, comes with a workable factory edge, has a remarkable edge retention and sharpens easily.
     
  17. rick alan

    rick alan

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    I'd say the hiromoto is probably thinner behind the edge.  The AS should take a sharper edge, the PM steel should hold an edge longer.  You have to treat AS like any other carbon, whereas the PM steel is stainless.

    Rick
     
  18. joe78

    joe78

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    Hi

    It would seem Hiromoto is the way to go!! Didn't expect that when I came on here to be getting a Santoku!! Then that why I came here for opinions. Thin behind the edge, good retention and easy to sharpen, what more could I look for? Have to see how much it costs to get one to England!!
     
  19. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    190mm is only 7" that's real short for a pro kitchen.  Good for scallions, shallots, garlic, but too short for a big onion, much too short for a cabbage.  I think it will add to your collection, but won't replace anything.
     
  20. joe78

    joe78

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    Millionsknives. Fair point. Again why I'm here. Like you say too small for a cabbage. I'm the only one in the kitchen who will make my slaw by hand, not processed  so that's something I need, but that's why I just got the Tojiro big almighty. I'm just looking to make work easier and I'm a little addicted to knives. Maybe I take a pic of the knives I have tomorrow and get some advice on where to go.

    Cheers

    Joe