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Discussion in 'Professional Pastry Chefs' started by fontzmark, Aug 21, 2001.
Anyone know where to find transfer sheets for tempered chocolate?, and possibly do your own design?
Check out Albert Uster or Paris Gourmet/ Patisfrance. I don't know anyone who has a do it yourself kit, but maybe those places can help you.
Also look up WhiteBakers in NJ, they cover the German importers along with Reese Imports in Astoria, NY.
Try Chocolates a la Carte and JB Prince might have some contacts.
I get my transfer sheets from Classic Gourmet, they have a great selection and transfer patterns on rolls/collars.
I've never heard of anywhere that custom makes these...I tend to think if you did find a place they'd be extremely expensive!
You could technically make your own, I suppose. Hermes' pro-book shows how to transfer a chocolate pattern on top of tortes as a starting thought.... Basicly you could silk screen your pattern onto acetate, then pour your chocolate over it to set, but I don't know what formula you could use for color or metalics that wouldn't gunk up the silk screen (colored chocolate?). Similar to silk screening patterns for joconde....but using chocolate.
how sickning. i just visited bo's web site and i was reading under the Q and A page. i read everything i must say that i am stunned when he said how to quick temper chocolate. he said that you should freeze marble and then heat the chocolate to 120 degrees and then spread some on the cold marble, cut out the shapes, shape them if needed, and then put them abck in the refer and then use them the same day you make them. i just took the chocolate class at the CIA and i must say that i am really stunned. i would never heat dark chocolate past 110 degrees max./.. i would never refer tempered chocolate and either. i think what he wanted to do is make untempered chocolate. that is what i got out of the answer. i would recomend that if there is any faster way to temper chocolate, it would be over an ice bath and i still think that it is risking the final outcome of your project.
food for thought
Issac I hope I'm understanding correctly, if I am, that's pretty much how I handle chocolate and I also believe on another thread Angry mentioned she does too.
If you become a pastry chef working with chocolate frequently, you'll need to master these short cuts too. WHY?: the kitchen is too hot, the heat in the kitchen changes how you have to work with chocolate. There isn't anywhere in my kitchen I can place tempered chocolate to set up or hold, as I'm working with it (as quickly as possible) my thinner pieces wilt. So I use the refid. to set and hold all chocolate garnishes, short storage and long term, I have no choices.
Second reason is time. I don't have the time to closely watch my chocolate. I don't really take my eye off the situation but it never has my total focus (someone is yelling, the dishwasher is squeezing infront of me, the delivery guy is waiting at the end of my table for me to sign product in, and I'm chilling something in the sink watching for it to firm but not set, etc...) while I'm taking it off and on the heat stirring. Where I worked I had 1 thermometer (for sugar that I used 2 minutes ago and is wet in the sink) so I never even knew what my temp. really was, just used my sight, feel and experience. I'd melt it HOPING my temp. was right, quick seed, then real low temp. melt again and use, using the cooler to quick set.
Chocolate worked this way holds for a VERY long time. One day only is a myth and unreal. I held certain chocolate garnishes (not meant to be eaten) over a year tightly sealed.
Tempering chocolate.......no way! I needed to do nice contempory pastry work but the reality of the job (which no one but me understood) required me to figure out how to do the impossible with no equpiment, not enough time and in a pastry hostile enviroment. Yes, learn how to temper, learn how to do everything correctly but I promise you life in a working kitchen forces you to do things much differently then ideal.
How well you know how to short cut everything determines survival.......
I second that!
Very enlightening post Wendy.
I'm a bit embarrassed, that wasen't meant to be the speach it looks like... I really would like to help you Issac by opening your mind to what's normal in pastry work from my real experience. I think school is great and the CIA is top notch...I have no desire to knock anything their teaching you, honestly! I'm truely envious of the education your getting.
I want to help you by showing you: theres' lots of ways to do things, what you learn in school might not always apply to the real world even though what school is teaching you is highly valuable knowledge it's only a stepping stone.
Try to keep your mind really really really open, it will make a huge HUGE difference (positively) for you when you get into this field! You'll be told/dirrected to do things that are beyond stupid or things that you just think are down right wrong. Sometimes the craziest dirrections from an idiotic chef might turn out to be a brilliant idea. Everyone comes across these Ta DA things that defie logic and the idiot chef was just waiting for you to open your mouth and tell him it wouldn't work....
There are chefs who will really mess with you for expressing anything you learned in school. You'll also get alot of "it's my way or the highway" attitute and much worse. The mentality at Webfoodpros really highlights the type of chefs you'll probably work under at most jobs, good, bad and horrible.
I say this to you as a person meaning to help you. There's just so much to learn about pastry/baking it's a constantly changing art.
your right, i supose i should have looked at it as a cooks prospective. there are always short cuts in that area .
when i read bo's q and a, it just raised some red flags. i am training under a german master pastry chef who just came over here to the states 9 months ago to teach at the cia. i meant to ask her what she thought of bo's q and a. i guess i never thought about it from a production point of view. mmmm, food for thought.
i love learning little trade secrets from people. we are aporaching grand buffet at the cia and we are doing plated desserts for this big event. we had this idea to make a chocolate cup filled with fruit that is in season. she didnt like thei dea at all. she hates the fact that the customer would have to try to brake the tempered chocolate and eat it. a long time ago, a pastry chef told her a secert. if you take, lets say a cup, and fill it with water, freeze it, insert a tooth pick and freeze it over night. then you melt chocolate.... untempered. take out the ice pop and dip it in the chocolate. the coldness of the ice will set the chocolate and the heat of the chocolate will milt the ice enough for it to slip off and now you have a chocolate cup that is way easier for the customer to eat. pretty darn cool eh? i thought so
thank you for opening up my eyes.... AGAIN, sometimes us students dont really understand that production out in the field is way diffrent then school
I love the idea using ice, that's great!! Will you attach handles?
I tend to side with your instuctor. Maybe it will be different at your schools' dinner, but at least whereever I've worked the heart breaking part about making your lovely chocolate cups was watching them come back to the dishwasher whole. I kind of think experiences like that change your thoughts about desserts selections as you grow in your career. I love doing items like that, but now I look for ideas that I can make quicker so I personally won't be dissapointed if it hits the can.
Your idea reminds me of a neat trick I have...If you can use a paint brush at all I started getting into some really neat plating. I began using food pastes and clear vanilla extract (to thin it) painted on my plates then you spray it with GLANZ food spray and it sets the image so the food color won't come off until it hits the dish washer. It's pretty cool and unbelievably quick to do. When the image gets sprayed (twice right in a row) it bleeds alittle so it really looks like a watercolor painting on the plate.
Here's one example: I'd take a chocolate item (any kind of cake or torte)and cut it in a simple shape, coat it with ganche, then I'd set a 3d marzipan bee (or 2 or 3) on top of the dessert and paint a couple bees buzzing on the plate around it. If you put your marzipan bees on wires (or hard spagetti noodle) and insert it into the cake, so looks like its' buzzing around the dessert...that gets you bigger "wow".
Just an idea for you to pull out of your bag if needed, cause I'd bet your instructor hasen't seen that in any book... (at least I haven't, yet?) You can hold your painted plates forever, they'll never spoil and theres tons of applications to be thought of.
i kinda understand our neat trick. i am a little confused on the food paste. what kind of paste is it and where can i get it? also, the Glanz (sp?)... what is this and where can i get it?
do you use stencil for painting on plates?
i was thinking of buying a paint gun. what features do you look for in a paint gun that you will be using for chocolare and other food work? any recomendations?
on the ice and choclate idea... you do put a handle on the ice cube if that is what you mean. you ca resuse the ice cube again and again until it melts and it is to small. i watch my pastey chef nock out 100 of them in less then an hour. she is awesome
have you ever made a chocolate mask? i was thinking that i could buy plastic masks and temper chocolate, pour it in.. let the excess drip off and put on another coating or 2. what do you think?
i was also thinking of molding pastillage. maybe rolling it out somewhat thin and putting it overthe mask or maybe in the mask and letting it hard. what do you think?
yesterday, i went to the kitchen supply store. it was like a little kid in a candy shop. ou know those silicon flexi molds? they are soo expensive but there is a cheaper brand on the market. they are called Moul'flex and made by B de buyer france. i ask the guy what kind of response they are having with these iteams. he said that some people are complaning that they are not getting the browing when they bake with them. that would really be easy to overcome and since they are 75 bucks cheaper then the silicon molds.. hey... it was work it. i finally bought a scale too. i spent sooo much money. my escuse... it was my 21st b-day and you are only 21 once so i had to buy myself a present. he he he
First, HAPPY BIRTHDAY ISAAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good for you!, you got a few things you really wanted and you didn't tell us you did something stupid like drink 21 shots of liqour for your b-day, very cool, your more focused than many of your peers!!!
Food pastes are just what most people use for food coloring instead of liquid colors they sell in the grocery stores.
I don't use stencils (I'm a former pro. artist) but you certainly can! And the would be so easy too....
Glanz is a food shelac and I buy it from Classic Gourmet out of Altanta but I certain your instructor has a closer source in NY.
I've never worked with spraying chocolate. I haven't had a job where it was fesible. My own talents got me into enough trouble I didn't need to find other things that were showie.
In the choc. cups for the handles, I meant are you piping them out then glueing them on with some choc.? I know you can't dip and retain a handle. I was wondering if your instructor had any technique to finish the bottom/back side of a piped out handle (which is flat from sitting on the paper) so the handle looks finished from front and back views?
You can play with molding the gum paste over many items (you'd have to apply and keep pressure to get any detail), but I'm not sure what your application would be? Paint it and set it on a cake....?
P.S. I'm 40 and own tons of pans, molds, etc...and I still become a child in a book store and all pastry related stores! The excitement of the possiblities hasn't faded yet.
Happy 21st, Isaac!
I'm Wendy's senior by a few years, and like Wendy, I own tons of pans, molds, etc...and I am still excited at the prospect of visiting a book store or kitchen supply and pastry related stores too!
You have many many years of fun and excitement in front of you!
[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: Kimmie ]
It's pretty funny, Isaac. I was just watching Payard on the food network making chocolate decorations with untempered HOT choclate and a frozen marble slab...then I read your post. It is wonderful to have high standards and know how to master all the techniques required in our profession, but it also is important to be open mindedly creative about shortcuts depending on the situation. In the kitchen where I work I have to keep all the chocolate curls, cigarettes, brittle, toffee, etc. in the walk-in cooler because it is too d-amn hot, either the chocolate untempers or becomes soft and gooey.
Happy 21st, Isaac. Your enthusiasm and energy is wonderful to read/feel, and I'm sure you'll have a bright future ahead of you. By the way, that's a great tip on the chocolate cups. Here at my work I don't even make chocolate cups, they get them from Chocolates a la Carte. It's a good/bad situation ---good because I don't have the labor to make them and it frees up my time to do all the other things that need to get don, and bad because the product looks very machine manufactured.
i will check with my pastry chef tuesday. good question.
i tempered chocolate, white that is, the other day using the table method. it worked. then i tried tempering a batch of dark chocolate for i didnt get a good temper. it seemed to be cool enough when i put the chocolate back into the bowl after working it on the marble but i didnt get a good set.
no one really knows how to temper in my class. heck.... wek now what it should do and all and what we need to do but when chef asks us to temper some chocolate... we pray to god first in hopes it will turn out, he he he ,
sometimes i hateb eing a cook. i know i need to spend more time in the bake shop. showing someone how to temper is a good thing but practising is the most important thing. that is what we lag at school. i would rather pay more and go longer then have to only been once. how annoying.
i do admit that it seems like us students and clinged to one way of doing something. for the most part.... on the cooking side, i understand that short cuts are needed. i forget there are needs for short cuts on the pastry side too.
i have been playing with pastiallge a lot lately. i am making my friend a box made out of it and then thinking of making a picture frame out of it too. we will see. i love working with it. its neat.
so i am wondering how you all pastry chefs out in the indrustry temper chocolate? i know ya all are pressed for time and always dealing with food cost and labor cost so i am curious how it is done in the field.
so i am confused.... yes... once again.
so, food paste... just go into a store and ask for it?
glanz.... ask chef at school.... WILL DO.
take the food paste and put on plate...using a stencil in my case. i am no artist... thats my dads job. then spray the glanz on it?
is this right?
do you recomend drawing books for people who have no freaking artistic talent?
Foodcoloring pastes, first you should have a copy of several pastry catalogs for purchasing retail and wholesale (just to become familar with product). Sweet Celebrations, Wilton and Albert Uster catalogs are good to start with. You probably could find them all on line and the first and last one I mentioned have free catalogs they'll will send you.
Sweet celerations has tons of food colors, pastes and powders and I'm sure you'll find many fun items you'll desire from them.
Food pastes are mostly what's sold unless you go buy the stuff sold at grocery stores, those food colors are liquid colors.
Actually I think not knowing how to paint might be easier than knowing....I prefer to keep the look underdone because when I get too realistic the painting looks like it's part of the plate (like you bought the plate with the pattern/item painted on it). Honestly, simple little flowers (like a 5 year old would make) look great! Stick drawings are GREAT (looks like modern art, ha). You could use stencils, yes, but it takes longer to position and get exact with them then to just sqiggle a pretty little pattern of dots or lines or try painting a bee (it's simple). Try bold colors they look great (use blue to create a shadow). Practice using the pastes very thick (hardly thinning with vanilla and thin to find the look you like). Spraying the image changes it. It does what artists call "bleed" the colors run alittle, that's a good thing it makes it look like a water color painting when the paint bleeds into the paper. Spraying the image twice gives it the moisture to bleed, then the protection
from touching and smudging.
I block off the rest of the plate so only the image gets shellaced. If you do many plates just cut a whole in a piece of cardboard the aprox. size of your item, then spray into the whole to avoid over spray around the rest of the plate. If you only have 1 plate put some plastic wrap over the empty part of the plate to keep your spray contained on the plate.
As for tempering chocolate, it does take time to become comfortable doing it and it's not an easy road in the beginning. You have to do it tons and tons to gain confidence. You don't have to know how in pro. pastry kitchens, like I said most of us don't have kitchens where it's practical to do it. Just do your best to learn all you can about it, everything will fall into place over time as you gain experience. Personally I use the seeding method, it's the cleanest and fastest way for me. But than I also ALWAY use the cooler to set. Have you tried what I'm saying? Maybe you could see the show Angry referenced to you it might surprise you how easy that method is....?
Excuse me for a dumb question, since I am about to attemp to make the stripes ( once I find the tool ) with the cigarette paste for my cake, is it best to use food paste or food colouring to colour my cigarette paste?
Hey Wendy, what about using a pretzel curve dipped in chocolate for a 3-d handle? Unsalted for a smooth handle. But you would still get a flat foot of chocolate if it were set on parchment to set up. But there must be some way of attaching a toothpick/skewer (or something that can act like one) on the pretzel so that you can anchor it on a half of an orange after dipping, then you get a perfectly smooth surface (no feet) after the chocolate sets up. You'd still have to glue it onto the chocolate cup. Never tried it myself, but the idea just popped into my head.