think about it

Discussion in 'The Late Night Cafe (off-topic)' started by dagger, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. dagger

    dagger

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    saw an ad on TV for low sodium Goya chic peas and I'm sure  they are right next their high sodium peas, does this make sense. Campbell's makes chunky soup and Healthy Request soup half the fat and sodium sold side by side. Duh, why not just make all products with less sodium and fat.
     
  2. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    Because not everyone wants that.  There is a definite taste difference between 2 items like that.  These companies are in business to make money, not police what people put into their bodies.  If it ever got to the point where the full sodium/full fat versions were no longer making money then these companies would probably drop those items.
     
  3. dagger

    dagger

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    Well in NY they are passing laws doing just that. Limiting types of fats and amount of sodium restaurants can use. They even trying to limig size of soft drinks and ages on who can buy them. My god these kids text and play video games all day, get up and move. Not everyone was ment to be thin, some are over weight by no fault of their own
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
  4. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you really want government intruding into your life that much-telling you how big of a soda to drink?  Personally, I don't want the government that involved in my life, nor is that the duty of the government.  Sure, right now it's trans fats and overly sugared soft drinks, but what happens when they determine that that grande frappucino contains more sugar or caffine than a person needs, or that you can't decide for yourself whether to risk eating that sunny side up egg?  People need to take responsibility for themselves, but it isn't the government's job to babysit them if they don't.
     
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  5. grande

    grande

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    The lady teaching my Servesafe course a few years ago said, "You can make that choice, for the good of your customers, to bring your meat in precooked." I about gagged.
     
  6. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    The manufacturers and canners have voluntarily acted to reduce sodium and sugar in general in their products. Like the MPAA or the Comics Code, this is about reacting to fears of restrictive legislation. By making efforts to adapt to the market proactively, they stay ahead of what could be stringent and restrictive legislation. But they'll keep what they can on the market because there are limits to how much you can reduce salt and still have the right flavor. 
     
  7. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    Manufacturers label their products, so is it really the government's responsibility to "save us from ourselves" by enacting restrictive legislation on things such as sugar, fat content, etc?
     
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  8. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Choices schmoices.  Hate to bring this up, but the U.S. is the one of the very few developed countries that doesn't really have a health care plan.  The countries that do have one are concerned about putting stress on the whole medical field (and general health of the public at large....) and are looking for ways to avoid this.  One way is to limit sodium and high calorie intake.

    Hey,I'm a cook and a pastry chef, I know nothing about nutrition or sodium, and I hate paul-ticks. 

    HOWEVER I do know the same thing that every bartender the world over knows: 

    That salt is a thirst and appetite stimulant. 

    Avoid consuming large quantities of sodium, and you avoid consuming large calorie intakes of sweetened beverages and high calorie foods.

    People are stupid and put a lot of trust and faith in advertising.  Sometimes you need a whack over the head to wake you up.  Maybe mandated regulations are a "good" whack over the head.

    But then again, what do I know? I'm just a cook and pastry chef........
     
  9. chefross

    chefross

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    It would seem that people can not take responsibility for what they put into their bodies and must therefore blame someone or something.
     
  10. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't disagree that diets that are high in sodium and fat and not healthy, but do you really want our government intruding even further into our lives, dictating what we can and cannot eat?  And unless we outlaw all things bad for us then doesn't just become arbitrary?  I don't see a whole lot, healthwise, that is redeeming about bacon, or pizza or burgers.  So why stop at some things, but allow others?  And who makes that decision for us?  Sorry, but I don't want the government trying to regulate us into healthy living.
     
  11. foodpump

    foodpump

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    I dunno Pete,

    I'm currently on my second season of "Madmen" on Netflix.  I still can't get over the fact that everyone smoked back then (early '60's): Doctors while examining, their patients, pregnant women, in the office, etc.

    Q: Who, in the U.S., put the screw on smoking, and for what reasons?

    An other thing in Madmen was the mentality that it was O.K to drive a car when totally drunk,   Again, who cracked down on drunk driving and for what reasons?

    U.S. car mnfctrs wouldn't put seat belts in their cars, who made them do it and why?  And again U.S. car mnfctrs refused to wean themselves off of leaded gasoline.  Who made them wean themselves off of it and why?

    Personally,  I feel the world is a much better place with no smoking in public areas and "O" tolerance to drunk driving, I'm pretty sure everyone else does too.

    Personal choices are one thing, but when personal choices affect those around them, it really starts to get people and Gov'ts thinking.  Childhood obesity is steadily rising in N.America and the strain it will put on the health care system--not to mention on those affected, will be staggering.

    Chef Ross is right on the money with his  observation that people need someone to blame for their choices. I'm sure we've all seen customers blame their servers for their choices--on  daily basis.  It takes very strong character to acknowledge your own choices and their consequences..... 
     
  12. cerise

    cerise Banned

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    I am unclear re your query/title re what you are asking.  Re "I''m sure they are next to..."



    There are multiple choices out there, and multiple brands.  Choose what is right for you and yours.



    If you don't care for the way your local market is set up, talk to the Manager, or seek another market.



    I feel, like legs are being pullèd.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  13. chefwriter

    chefwriter

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         I'm with Pete on this. Being an informed consumer is the goal of having calorie counts on menu items, ingredient info on labels and other various other nutritional information available. This is beneficial to making good choices. But millions now know that fast food and soda aren't a healthy daily diet. They still have the choice to eat it or not. In response to those choices, many fast food corporations began offering healthier menu items. Government isn't making fast food illegal, it is just making sure consumers are informed. Consumers then make their own choices. 

         This isn't comparable to smoking, driving drunk or seat belts. Those activities had a direct, immediate and measurable impact on others.

        Smoking in public places made those places immediately unhealthy and uncomfortable for anyone in the vicinity. Anti smoking legislation is designed to minimize the social impact on a directly measurable public problem. 

    Driving drunk has an immediately negative effect on other drivers, pedestrians and property.  

         Seat belts prevent serious injury and death in otherwise survivable accidents in direct and measurable ways. Manufacturers were reluctant to install them because of the additional cost and concern that car sales would be negatively affected, much as fast food companies were initially concerned that calorie counts on menus would negatively impact sales but the direct relationship between wearing a seatbelt and better survival rates was never really in question. 

          Eating habits and the impacts on health are too varied, include too many factors and are too subjective to be legislated with an across the board mentality. On the flip side of this thinking, would we legislate that every person eat a salad every day? Or legislate and somehow enforce everyone drinking 8 glasses of water a day? Those are both healthy choices but legislating and enforcing them is absurd. If I can't get a massive soda at a fast food restaurant, is the grocery store going to limit how much soda I buy and insist that I instead buy bottled water for my own good? 

          Childhood obesity is currently under scrutiny but no single cause has yet been identified. If there was a single, defining cause for fat kids, we could discuss the potential for legislation. But like so many other facets of life, there are many factors at play and a simple solution is not forthcoming any time soon. 

         Some people enjoy learning and being informed about food. Others don't care so much. Providing for informed choice is a laudable goal for legislation but legislating personal decision making is not. 
     
  14. cerise

    cerise Banned

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    I think you are making a mockery of this sitè.

    Don't get your screen name either.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  15. foodpump

    foodpump

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    O.K.  But more importantly, why do you think this?

    Everyone has opinions, and no one's calling anyone dirty names or arguing tooth and nail.  I don't agree with Pete or Chefwriter, but they both make some valuable and intelligent points.  This is what healthy discussion is all about.
     
  16. dagger

    dagger

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    I rember a cooking show done by to drs that yes we need to limit the amount of sugar but also crapy ingredients the food manufacturers started using to save money like corn syrup. The body processes foods different ways and they said corn syrup is one the body can't handle or burn up right away like sugar. Not all sugars are alike like salt, think before refrigeratesion salting food was the only way to preserve meat. All this has been around for centuries and we are still here bigger and stronger, why so bad now? I don't rember reading about millions dropping over from a can of soda or eating a donut.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2015
  17. panini

    panini

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    Oh, Excuse me. I'm sorry. I was looking for The Late Night Forum, ya know, off topic. I want to throw something out there and see what others thought.

    /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif

    /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif
     
  18. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly who is making a mockery out of this site?

    I think the question is a very legitimate one and, while I might not agree with all the answers, the dialogue has been a good one, with everyone contributing something to the conversation.  I don't see what the problem is.
     
  19. foodpump

    foodpump

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    Mmmm... Oh we are define
    Well yeah, we are getting bigger, just ask any airline or any casket mnfctr.  Schools too will tell you that there are more and more overweight and obese kids every year.

    Point I want to make,  is that no one is going to drop dead over a can of soda or donut, but the fact that that obesity is putting one heck-uva strain on every developed nation's healthcare system.   For the health care workers, this means more injuries on the job moving heavy patients, getting them bathed/dressed etc.  For the obese, it means much higher odds of getting type II diabetes, and the side effects this can have (blindness, amputation, etc).  For everyone else, it means much higher health care insurance premiums, longer wait times for specialists, and longer wait times for surgeries and procedures in hospitals.  One other point I need to make is that a stressed healthcare system will not perform as well when a natural disaster strikes, or an epidemic like bird flu, e-coli, etc. comes a-calling.

    But you are right, our forbears have eaten enormous quantities of food and survived, quite well in fact.  Thing is, our forbears also expended an enormous amount of calories too....

    Look 40 years ago when I went to school every kid would walk the 3 or 5 blocks to school.  At lunch, we got 90 minutes lunchbreak and walked home and back for lunch.  At recess and after school we would play hockey in the winter and street hockey in the summer (guess you can tell I'm Canadian, eh?).  In other words, we expended calories.  At home we had chores, like lawn mowing, raking leaves, painting fences, and whatever else our parents could dream up.  Today, any kid under 15 who walks to school un escorted by an adult will get his parents arrested, or have Social Services pay a call and issue a fine, lunchbreaks are under 30 minutes, recesses shortened, etc.  Is this purely coincidence or can we connect children's obesity to lack of exercise and  consumption of foods rich in sugar, fat, and salt?

    While I am in no position to ponder the origins of obesity, or why it is exploding so quickly in the last 20 or so years,  I do know two ways of controlling obesity: Control calorie intake, and control calorie expenditure. Having coke machines in schools is no help, neither is lobbying the Senate to accept french fries as a "vegetable" and pizza as a "fruit" (on account of the tomato paste, rich in Vit. C and a tomato IS a fruit...) for school lunches.

    I also beg to differ that salting was the only method prior to refrigeration to preserve meat.  From Pemmican to dried Cod, from waxed duck to blachan, every nation and culture has a method for drying meats, fish, and produce.

    But this is a great topic and I hope others will contribute to it.
     
  20. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    Foodpump, I don't think anyone will disagree that our Western, American diet can be pretty terrible and we have become, generally, lazy as a society, where kids would rather play on their Playstations than go outside, move around, and play pretend like we did when I was a kid.  But I have to ask, do you seriously advocate letting our government intrude into our lives so much that they can dictate what we eat?  Let's face it, our government is divided on things like global warming and vaccines (please don't air your views on either topic here-the point is they are divided) so what makes you think they can come up with a comprehensive solution to healthy eating?  Remember a few years ago when everyone was saying that eggs were terrible for you, but now are okay, at least in moderation.  There was a time when fat was pure evil and to be avoided at all costs, now we understand that some fat is vital to a healthy diet.  What if our government acted on those "fads." And how does the government handle that person that, since jumbo sized sodas are outlawed, now drinks 3 20 oz Cokes per day instead of the 1 large 32 oz. cup of soda?  If we are going to legislate what we can and cannot eat, then do we also legislate how many hours of exercise we must get per week?

    No, you cannot legislate people into being healthy, nor does that really jive with our country's moral standards of freedom.  If you want to educate people and guide them to a healthier lifestyle then hit them where it counts, in their pocketbook or reward for good behavior.  My insurance company offers a $20 a month discount for non-smokers.  My company recently ran a contest where you had to swap out an unhealthy drink with a healthy drink 21 days out of the month, and if you did you won a Fitbit.  Now, these aren't perfect solutions as people can lie, but it goes towards getting people to be involved in modifying their behavior which is much better, and a heck of a lot less messy than trying to legislate them into healthy behaviors.