The Pie's The Limit

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Joined Jul 28, 2001
Isa,
I'm not understanding, but that is nothing new.

If my genoise calls for 3lbs flour . What would you substitute? 2 lbs of flour and 1lbs of potato starch and 16 yolks. Is this something you do all the time or are you quoting from a book? I'm also not understanding why not use a flour with less protien like cake flour.:confused:
 

isa

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I was quoting from The Art Of The Cake by Bruce Healy and Paul Bugat…

You are right Panini it doesn't make sense. Not presented like that anyway. Should this be a master formula it should be consistent right? I mean for 25 g flour you would have 10 g starch and 1 yolk. (Sorry can't get it straighter)

………………………………Flour………Starch………Yolk
………………………………-in grams…in grams

English Cake ………………110 ………17……….…..0
Génoise …………………...…175 ………20 ……..……7
Génoise Log ……………….125 ………10 …………...1
Malgieri Génoise……………57 ……….21…………...0
Lemon Cake………………..140……….30……...… ..2
Pound Cake…………………200……….10…………...1
Savoie Cake…………………50………..50…………....0


Checking the recipes, it's not consistent. Here is the ingredient list for the génoise recipe from the book, for two 9 inch rounds baked in cake pans or two 8 1/4 inch rounds baked in cake rings.

7 large eggs, at room temperature
2 egg yolks, at room temperature
8 ounces (225 g) sugar
6 1/4 ounces (175 g)all purpose flour
3/4 ounce (20 g) potato starch
1 ounce (30 g) unsalted butter barely melted

The pound cake, for a 6 cup loaf pan, is as follow:

8 ounces (225 g) unsalted butter barely melted
8 ounces (225 g) superfine or extra fine sugar, chilled in the refrigerator
4 large eggs, at room temperature
1 egg yolk, at room temperature
1 teaspoon (5 ml) vanilla extract
7 ounces (200 g)all purpose flour
1/3 ounce (10 g) potato starch

Conclusion? The guys are better baker than mathematician. Even if the American is a former physicit... The French one is a pastry chef owner of the Patisserie Clichy.

More seriously the recipes are good. I never looked at it that closely before though. Does it make a better cake? To know for sure one has to make two génoise one with starch and one without. One day I'll have to try it.
 
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Well I think that the formula is a good substitute for not having cake flour. on a small level. My 20 qt genoise recipe is the smallest I have.
 

isa

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Dare I say they have a formula for that too...


As an exemple of how to compensate for a flour with different protein content, we will use King Arthur unbleached all-purpose flour. The King Arthur unbleached all-purpose flour has a protein content of about 11.7%, which is too high for cake making. King Arthur also makes an unbleached white pastry flour, called Round Table pastry flour, which has a much lower proteins content (about 9.2%) than all-purpose flour. To compensate for the higher protein content of King Arthur unbleached all-purpose flour compared to Gold Medal, we recommend two possible substitution. For each 7 ounces (200 g) of all-purpose flour called in one of our recipes, use:

* either 3 ounces (100 g) King Arthur unbleached all-purpose flour
plus 3 1/2 ounces (100 g) Round Table white pastry flour.

* or 6 1/4 ounces (180 g)King Arthur unbleached all-purpose flour plus 1/3 ounce (10 g) potato starch.
 
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well needless to say, mixing flours here is not popular. but I think if you want a softer flour you will need to know the wheat before blending. If the apf is running 11.7 to me ,its more like bread flour. mixing pastry would still not be soft enough for cake, I don't know.
 
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Nick Malgieri once scolded me for using KA AP flour (11.7 % protien) in cookies. He told me "KA flour is for bread, not cookies."
 
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Well I'm pretty ignorant but my senses can't detect alot of these difference in flours. There's only some items where I can notice the texture differences like some cakes. I don't see it in most cookies.

Please forgive me Kyle I mean nothing personal (honestly) just my stupid old tastes and loud opinions, but I lack respect for Nick M. because I've made many recipes from him and they really are some of the worst examples of baking I've come across over the years. Sorry, I know he's well respected in the baking industry, that's just my personal opinion in respect to the recipes I've tried of his.

Rules in books aren't always right or the best advice, which is a whole new can of worms....I have sub.ed in and out a % of cornstarch for flour successful many times. In many items it works very well. But I'll only do that in items that I want a shorter or drier texture in like crusts or cookies, also alot of lady finger recipes do that too.
 
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This thread is the reason I was looking for not coming to the States...

The life is too complicated there. Three kind of flours to make things that...

Hold your mouth Vivian!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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...go bump in the night? Take a deep cleansing breath my Hellenic friend :) You tell me about your flour and I'll find it here in the Good 'ole U.S. of A.
 
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What go bump in the night means Kylie?

Something good or something bad? ( Seriously I don't know the expression)

I have counted already to bring just for you some of the flour I use!!! :) :)

I hope you don't like it!!! Think what will happen to us if we will have our flour sent to NY from Greece :)


I am not Hellenic, I am Greek.
 
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First things first. I apologize fro my confusing Hellenic and Greek. Here is the source of my confusion.

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary
Main Entry: 1Hel·len·ic
Pronunciation: he-'le-nik, h&-
Function: adjective
Date: 1644
: of or relating to Greece, its people, or its language; specifically : of or relating to ancient Greek history, culture, or art before the Hellenistic period

Second things second. "Things that go bump in the night" are scarey things. :eek: The Boogie Man would most definately go bump in the night.

Third things third. I am sure that we will be able to find you a flour that will suit your baking needs. ****, we got Kansas, Montana etc. etc. We're lousy with the stuff:)
 
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AP flour can be used for most anything by adding:

Bread 1/2 apf + 1/2 high gluten

pastry 1/2 apf + cake flour

cake 3/4 apf + 1/4 starch


this is all give or take.

cake flour is ment to hold vertically, pastry horizontally and ap with limited each way and bread max each way.

this is the simple way my tiny brain functions.

Kyle, you crack me up!

I had a problem making a 2 cup h2o bread mix in my new places 6 quart mixer. here is how i fixed it= I substitued half the apf with hgf and what a happy day i had!

flour is your friend, blend with it!
 
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He he he

I know what Hellenic means I went to Cambridge after all.

But we consider ourselves nouns and not adjectives! ;)

Seriously now. For historical reasons that have nothing to do with this thread we'd rather be called Greeks :)

Although the correct word is Hellenes and not Hellenic ,regardless if Anglosaxonic dictionaries seem to ignore that,( Funny , they use the Homeric dictionaries only when it's convenient to them...) for political reasons I'd rather be called Greek.
Just to remind to people that we have wounds that bleed.

As for the rest of your message...

It's all Greek to me :lol: :lol:

I will bring you some flour I use anyway, it will be fun to experiment with that, I guess :) :)
 
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Originally posted by Athenaeus
"we'd rather be called Greeks:)"

C'est tout finis!


M- 2 cups water means about 6 cups total flour? I think my seven QT mixer would be OK with that. It's the dough that's half that size that wraps itself around the hook an doesn't knead fully. Any thoughts there? It's the problem I was talking about on Saturday.
 
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the extra gluten kicked it's doughy little hine into action for me. the bread dough i am making has spices, raisins and buttermilk, yeast flour, sugar and walnut oil. mmmmmmmm great with cheese.
 
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Sounds downright tasty! Speaking of tasty and cheese and walnut(oil), ever try walnut-blue cheese bread? Very tasty!
 
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