The new "Normal" for us all....

[chefross]

Our governor just announced that are county will be reopening this Friday. Bars, restaurants, retail, and offices will all be able to open but to practice social distancing.
My concern is that in our small little hole in the wall, a restaurant with only 25 seats will have to juggle these in order to protect other diners. In such a small area, I feel this is absurd.

 

[Seoul Food]

Our governor just announced that are county will be reopening this Friday. Bars, restaurants, retail, and offices will all be able to open but to practice social distancing.
My concern is that in our small little hole in the wall, a restaurant with only 25 seats will have to juggle these in order to protect other diners. In such a small area, I feel this is absurd.

I think a lot will also come down to how strictly people or the government want people to practice these distancing measures. Hand washing, masks and trying to stay within a certain amount of space from one another as suggestions is a good start but I'm not sure how they can waste resources policing this. So say are supposed to practice the 6 foot suggestion in your restaurant. Does that mean just diners? What about staff? What about staff passing between diners? Is it any time someone is within 6 feet or just extended periods, and if so how long is that period? If your line is only 10 feet plus long and you need two cooks on it, how are you supposed to do that? And say you could eat maybe half of your capacity to make sure every diner is 6 feet apart, what if another customer walks in? Do you turn that business down, or take them in and hope the virtue police don't call the police in? Unfortunately I am seeing over and over that someone gets to make these rules, and leaves the sorting of the details to us to figure out with no guidance, only consequences.

 

[phaedrus]

Montana is starting to allow some things to reopen. The "R" here is well under 1 and there have only been 500 cases in the state with a pretty low death rate. Naturally this will rise as social distancing and stay-at-home orders start to expire and people go out more. I expect things will be pretty tough for restaurants for a while. A buddy of mine that was one of my Sous Chefs at a few years ago said they're allowing dine-in again on a limited basis starting this week but a lot of people will continue to stay away. It will be a while before people are confident that it's safe to do things in larger groups. For example I'm a huge film buff and in normal times I'll see a movie in the theater ever week or every other week but there's no way in hell I'm going to the theater anytime soon. Our local theater is reopening with limited seating this week but it's a hard pass from me.

The reality probably sunk in that a lot of things we used to consider normal activity or even "essential" was really just a hobby. A fair amount of people eat five or more meals of fast food a week but clearly that number could be zero and it wouldn't affect people much (except to make them healthier). The new normal will be very different for a while if not forever. If we get a vaccine, or if the pandemic burns itself out, I could see pre-COVID levels of economic engagement returning in two or three years.

 

[chefross]

It should be quite interesting to go out to eat, but being required to wear a mask in the dining room.

 

[halb]

If you think you only have to worry about the virus, there's another disease starting to spread. I see Disney Orlando is set to reopen and they have an implied contract that the patrons automatically agree to by entering the facility. The contract absolves Disney Orlando of any liability should the patron become infected with Covid from their presence there.

A couple of months ago I researched for my wife if a boss or the company (a non-essential business) has any liability if they require her to go to work during the lockdown. The answer was surprisingly no, she can be required to go to work and there is no way to prove that she contracted the virus from there if she did get sick.

So now apparently the lawyers have been hard at work thinking about this and now we do have to worry about liability. Liability is a good thing in the situation above, any boss like that should be locked up. But now businesses have to worry about being sued if a customer claims they got the virus from patronizing your business. Food borne illness is one thing because at least there usually is some way to show that the restaurant did something wrong. How do you defend yourself against this?

 

[Seoul Food]

If you think you only have to worry about the virus, there's another disease starting to spread. I see Disney Orlando is set to reopen and they have an implied contract that the patrons automatically agree to by entering the facility. The contract absolves Disney Orlando of any liability should the patron become infected with Covid from their presence there.

A couple of months ago I researched for my wife if a boss or the company (a non-essential business) has any liability if they require her to go to work during the lockdown. The answer was surprisingly no, she can be required to go to work and there is no way to prove that she contracted the virus from there if she did get sick.

So now apparently the lawyers have been hard at work thinking about this and now we do have to worry about liability. Liability is a good thing in the situation above, any boss like that should be locked up. But now businesses have to worry about being sued if a customer claims they got the virus from patronizing your business. Food borne illness is one thing because at least there usually is some way to show that the restaurant did something wrong. How do you defend yourself against this?

I don't think it would be too hard to do honestly. The burden or proof in that situation is very hard to meet. I don't see how you could possibly pinpoint exactly from where or who you received the virus that made you sick. Say you were exposed to two people, how do you back date it, based on symptoms? One could have been asymptomatic longer. You would also have to prove that the business owners knowingly put customers in direct harm with a specific set of circumstances, not just a generalized argument that they may come into contact with a virus at some point.

 

[halb]

That's why I'm saying that the whole premise is absurd. But since the lawyers smelled that they can make money off of this, there is nothing to stop someone from dragging you into court and costing you money to say what you just said. All it takes is a few people just saying that they became infected after visiting your establishment and you're done.

 

[Seoul Food]

That's why I'm saying that the whole premise is absurd. But since the lawyers smelled that they can make money off of this, there is nothing to stop someone from dragging you into court and costing you money to say what you just said. All it takes is a few people just saying that they became infected after visiting your establishment and you're done.

Well in America everyone sues everyone else over nothing so I can see where you are going with this. I believe that there have been some laws or attempts at laws restricting wrongful death suits against health care facilities, so maybe this is the route a lot of companies will go?

 

[halb]

In NY they are doing tracing. They are hiring hundreds of people to sit at their computers at home connected to a data base. Their job is to contact every individual that either has the virus or tests positive for it and find out where they have been and who they have been in contact with for last two weeks. Then the people they say they were in contact with get a call for the same information. And so on and so on.

So you can see that it would be easy to establish a pattern that can implicate a certain location or place.

 

[toddhicks209]

So it would seem that the media has taken upon itself to describe what life will be like for Chefs and restaurants in the future after Covid-19.
Chefs will no longer:
Be able to cook without a mask.
Be able to have a large staff
Be able to serve food buffet style
Be able to share work tools
Waitstaff are not immune either
No more condiments (mustard, ketchup, etc) on the tables
No more napkin dispensers
All staff must wear gloves when serving

These things may or may not come to fruition but they make sense......Scary stuff

Some of these measures are off the wall, in my opinion. If this has to be the case, we could have done this stuff from the get-go, keeping restaurants and other parts of the economy open.

 

[Seoul Food]

Some of these measures are off the wall, in my opinion. If this has to be the case, we could have done this stuff from the get-go, keeping restaurants and other parts of the economy open.

Exactly. There seems to be a double standard, if we continue to allow big box stores to operate using certain measures there should have been a point where the same measures could have been used for a lot more businesses. Usually it is harder to scale things up rather than down.

 

[chefross]

Okay. so here's what's happened now that the restaurants in my town are now open. One of them created an outdoor seating area that can only be accessed from the inside. People still must wear masks when arriving and then after being seated, may remove them.
Our ice cream place will not allow lines outside for ordering. All orders (including ice cream desserts) must be phoned in first. (no cell phone coverage or internet exists.)
Another place decided it would be best to wait until June to open.
Of course, as I'm driving by the best breakfast place on the island it has 15 cars out front already. I wonder how they developed social distancing in THAT place. I only holds 50.

 

[Seoul Food]

Okay. so here's what's happened now that the restaurants in my town are now open. One of them created an outdoor seating area that can only be accessed from the inside. People still must wear masks when arriving and then after being seated, may remove them.
Our ice cream place will not allow lines outside for ordering. All orders (including ice cream desserts) must be phoned in first. (no cell phone coverage or internet exists.)
Another place decided it would be best to wait until June to open.
Of course, as I'm driving by the best breakfast place on the island it has 15 cars out front already. I wonder how they developed social distancing in THAT place. I only holds 50.

I wonder why you can't have lines in the ice cream place if they are far enough apart? I think people need to realize no matter what we do there will be more cases and in all probability more deaths as we open things back up. Thinking that we can get things back on track with no one ever getting COVID-19 again is a pipe dream. The reporting agencies should also give all the data about the new cases. When you just make a blanket statement that 100 new people tested positive, that doesn't mean all of them are severely sick. Perspective needs to be maintained if we are to open back up.

 

[halb]

The reporting agencies should also give all the data about the new cases. When you just make a blanket statement that 100 new people tested positive, that doesn't mean all of them are severely sick. Perspective needs to be maintained if we are to open back up.

That's because they want to scare people into hiding under their beds. Been that way from the beginning. You can't appeal to logic because the public has very little of that. They need the government to tell them what to do and the government is happy to oblige.

 

[Seoul Food]

That's because they want to scare people into hiding under their beds. Been that way from the beginning. You can't appeal to logic because the public has very little of that. They need the government to tell them what to do and the government is happy to oblige.

Unfortunately it has broken down into political camps now, and just like everything else along these lines it is being represented by the two extremes. It is absurd that a town of 100,000 or less people with a few cases and deaths would have to follow the same guidelines as NYC or a similar metropolitan area. This is a good time for local governments to shine but they are being steam rolled by the higher ups.

 

[cheflayne]

Blaming the government is an easy thing to do but a cop out at the same time. In the USA, we are the government, so who are we blaming? Where does change originate? Look in the mirror. If the person in the mirror is doing nothing to advance change other than to complain...probably not much will change.

I like to solve problems. I know it is a skill set, but it's also an obligation. I grew up with parents who believe that you don't simply complain: you try to find solutions and fix what's in front of you.
Stacey Abrams

 

[halb]

Blaming the government is an easy thing to do but a cop out at the same time. In the USA, we are the government, so who are we blaming? Where does change originate? Look in the mirror. If the person in the mirror is doing nothing to advance change other than to complain...probably not much will change.

Of course, that's the hallmark of our democracy. But the sad truth is that the people in power were put there by the very same people who worship the media and social media and will believe anything if they hear it enough or sounds believable.

 

[dectra]

Now provide more government handouts and we will be a Socialist country.

You mean handouts like your president has done?

Trump administration gave a $12 billion bailout for farmers impacted by the response from the tariffs that Trump has repeatedly said "china will pay"....and they do not. The USDA announced another $16 billion in trade-related aid to farmers. It came on top of the previous $12 billion package, for a grand total of $28 billion in two years.

28 Billion in handouts.....courtesy of the administration.

 

[chefbillyb]

I saw a few days ago https://www.wweek.com/restaurants/2...manently-closing-all-five-of-his-restaurants/ I would worry about how to navigate this up coming opening at different stages. This Chef in Portland isn't going to be the only one.

 

[Seoul Food]

Blaming the government is an easy thing to do but a cop out at the same time. In the USA, we are the government, so who are we blaming? Where does change originate? Look in the mirror. If the person in the mirror is doing nothing to advance change other than to complain...probably not much will change.

As much as I would love to believe that I think recent events have shown that we are in fact not the government or the power in this country anymore. Government officials at various levels are abusing their "powers" in the name of public safety but some of these measures should be looked at very carefully and not just brushed aside. Yes everyone wants to be safe but we should not be giving up certain freedoms no matter how ridiculous it may seem now, because if we continue down this path someday it will lead to something worse. And yes it's easy to just complain about things but change has to happen on a massive scale to do anything and people are generally either too lazy, uneducated or busy to devote the time and resources required to navigate all the red tape. The people in the system have purposefully made the system difficult to change.