Terminology Question

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by rouxrobot, May 10, 2014.

  1. rouxrobot

    rouxrobot

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    Long time lurker, first time poster. I'll keep it short and to the point.

    Im looking for explanations of the technical differences between a ballantine, gallantine, roulade, and a paupiette please. Everywhere I look I find different answers and while they are all very similar I know there have to be important differences I'm missing. Thank you all in advanced for your help. Have a grateful day!
     
  2. michaelga

    michaelga

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    Ballotine

    Galantine

    Roulade

    Paupiette

    ----

    There is a lot of over-lap and also many variations but in general they were all ways to make traditionally expensive meat stretch a little bit further.  As meat became cheaper they became the end result themselves and sometimes even cost more in the end than simply buying more meat.  

    The second reason was to 'enrich' what was considered to be a 'poor' cut of meat by adding flavour and preventing it from becoming dry.

    The above are 'generalities' and many different cultures have many different origin stories and explanations.

    Lastly the terms have changed over time and depending on the historical context may differ considerably, with the more modern definitions being used rather loosely...to denote anything even close to the style.

    ----

     none should be confused with en Papillote   or al cartoccio
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
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  3. rouxrobot

    rouxrobot

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    Thank you very much for your reply.

    Are the terms all just used interchangeably or are there specific differences? I don't want to put something on a menu that isn't accurate. For instance, is one served cold and another hot, or one uses whole deboned portions and another just flattened flesh(what I think of as a roulade)? Are all galantines coated in aspic or chaud froid?

    My main issue I guess would be the differences between a ballotine and galantine and then the difference in a roulade and a paupiette.

    "none should be confused with en Papillote   or al cartoccio"

    I wouldn't dare!
     
  4. michaelga

    michaelga

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    If you're going strictly with a menu - then the sky's the limit, fast and loose seems to get the most play today.

    Ballotine - generally only poultry and traditionally legs/thighs or mostly intact meat that is stuffed.   Mostly served as an entree, usually hot.

    Galantine - generally emulsified fish or poultry, served cold, aspic common but not required, made as a center piece/display and cut into serving portions, the ancient terminology usually refers to a sauce.

    -----

    Paupiette - closest to the modern en papillote - could be meat or other item as the wrapper but it is generally a single serving size, more a 'technique' than a method to 'stretch' expensive proteins.  Usually needs no extra items to tie / pin or bind the item.  Mostly lighter in flavour, higher in herbs.

    Roulade - more peasant in approach ie. to stretch proteins, usually cooked in larger size and then portioned for service.  Commonly tied or pinned to maintain shape during cooking.  Heavier in flavour with more spices and stronger seasonings ie. red wine, rosemary, pickles, bacon etc.

    .......

    again - there is much variety and regionality with these dishes.  

    To get the best response post your recipe, method and location... then you will get the best answer for your menu.
     
  5. rouxrobot

    rouxrobot

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    Thanks again for the replies, this is exactly what I was looking for.

    "Fast and loose seems to get the most play today."

    While this is true and I have a lot of respect for what people like Grant Achatz, The Roca Brothers, and the Bras are doing for modern cookery I'm more of a traditionalist/Repertoire de la Cuisine kind of guy so the definitions and traditional methods really mean a lot to me. I may be an executive chef but I'm only 25 and didn't attend culinary school so I still have a lot to learn and really want to get the traditional methods down before I start to play off them.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  6. genemachine

    genemachine

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    Question to the professionals here - is really anyone still make galantine in a commercial setup? Can't remember when I have seen one . Some dinner buffet at a hotel, I think, but even that was ages ago.
     
  7. michaelga

    michaelga

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    Nope - they are mostly ancient history...

    ... might be a few retro-places but certainly not anything mainstream.
     
  8. rouxrobot

    rouxrobot

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    I don't know for sure but I'd say you'd be hard pressed to find them outside of France and even then probably sparsely. Which is a shame because this is really the type of thing I love and want to do: rillettes, chaud froid and aspics, terrines, charcuterie, old school garde manger, beautiful cheese trolleys...ahh maybe one day.
     
  9. genemachine

    genemachine

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    I agree that I haven't seen most of those (especially focussed on) outside of France myself, but, well... if you promote it right? Me and my food loving friends would most certainly drive a long way for a place just for a proper rillette....
     
  10. rouxrobot

    rouxrobot

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    Maybe its just the way I was brought up in rural GA/TN but traditional french cuisine, especially rural southern France has always spoken to me, if that makes any sense, and feels right at home with my cooking style and background. Its really a shame we don't see more of this wonderful style of cooking these days.
     
  11. genemachine

    genemachine

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    Oh yeah. Southern France was the preferred holiday destination for my family when I was a wee one. I know what you mean, absolutely.
     
  12. chrisbelgium

    chrisbelgium

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    Galantine can be found in a number of variations in any charcuterie nowadays, well at least in my country and certainly in France. It's charcuterie. In a restaurant? Indeed, as you said Gene, on large buffets on the charcuterie section, but that's probably it.

    @RouxRobot  Most amateur or pro cooks have already made ballotines (not ballantine, that's whiskey) without referring to that name. The french word "ballot" means a small bale (package). We all have already used a chicken fillet or deboned a chicken leg and stuffed it with whatever. That's a ballotine.

    Side note; There's also the "ballotin" without the end "e", which is a typical package for artisanal chocolats, also looking like a bale.

    It's best to demystify French cooking by simple getting started and try to cook your favorite French food. It's all much less complicated than people think. My suggestion is to get your working recipes from modern french cookbooks or french magazines and to check those dishes with traditional recipes published in the Larousse or whatever.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  13. rouxrobot

    rouxrobot

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    "Most amateur or pro cooks have already made ballotines (not ballantine, that's whiskey) without referring to that name. "

    I'm sure they have, as have I, but I like to use the proper nomenclature when I can hence the question. I don't really feel there is anything mysterious about french cookery its just the style I most relate to and identify with outside of my own roots and am trying to learn everything I can about it. In all the books I have on the subject none of them gave a proper definition with differences. Also, sorry for the misspelling it was late where I am and had just got off 14hr shift.

    Thank you very much for the reply though.
     
  14. chrisbelgium

    chrisbelgium

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    Oh, and welcome to Cheftalk, RR. I understand your search for the correct terminology as a professional. I'm not always sure that the correct French description is appreciated by everyone. To be honest, I would think twice before using "Ballotine de suprême de volaille" instead of "stuffed chicken breast" on this forum. However, when you go to restaurants in my country you will have mostly the French description only or an addition in dutch. For some reason restaurants like the French way.

    Do you have a French background?
     
  15. genemachine

    genemachine

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    Pepin and Robuchon would be my recommendations for getting into the French classics. Larousse as reference, of course.
     
  16. chefedb

    chefedb

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    Last time I made a galantine was about 5 years ago. It was coated in Chaud-froid and aspic with a medallion of he Flag of the French republic on it done with truffles and other food items .Surrounded by chicken Jeanette's  It was for a party at the UN.  It was served cold on buffet and served about 30. We charge for that platter alone $350.00. They didn't bat an eyelash.