Tennessee BBQ help?

Discussion in 'Recipes' started by spammar, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. spammar

    spammar

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    now i had this idea for a BBQ sauce i don't have the measurements due to lack of money to play around and with some ingredients i cant choose between as well so i was wondering if i could get some help with measurements and the ingredients i am torn between.

    Jack daniels black or no7 

    sugar

    dark molasses 

    liquid smoke or chipoltle adoboe sauce 

    onion brule (pureed) 

    roasted red bell(pureed)

    worcestershire sauce 

    malt or cider vinegar 

    tomato paste or ketchup 

    if you can help me with the measurements and the ingrediants i cannot decide between it would be much appreciated 

    by the way i plan to use the sugar and molasses to make brown sugar most of the way but not all of the way so untill it is a sorta like a crumbly damp  ball then mix with the whiskey to make a sweet liquid that's one idea i dont want to change unless it is a bad one

    thanks in advance for all the help 
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  2. maryb

    maryb

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    Research Memphis BBQ sauce to get an idea of what ingredients are typically used. Start with the base then slowly add the spices etc until you reach the flavor profile you want.
     
  3. spammar

    spammar

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    i did research it before i posted this, looked at around 40-60 recipes:) its where i got my ingrediants i talked to some people who have experience with BBQ and refined my list 

    Jack daniels no7 

    sugar

    dark molasses 

    liquid smoke

    chipoltle adoboe sauce 

    onion brule (pureed) 

    roasted red bell(pureed)

    worcestershire sauce 

    malt or cider vinegar 

    tomato paste

    salt

    pepper 

    paprika 

    onion powder 

    i do have trouble with measurements if i am starting something due to not writing it down as soon as i do it so i forget and have to keep inching everything next time i make it to make it the same again :/

    but as soon as i can afford it i will say how it went 
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  4. brianshaw

    brianshaw

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  5. spammar

    spammar

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    i came across that recipe in my research :) 

    i do not know what i will be putting it on yet as i do not yet know how this will taste, but my guesses are pulled pork as you said, shredded turkey, roasted pork loin, pork ribs, or on hamburgers. 
     
  6. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Most American style barbecue sauces are some sort of variation on sweet and sour.  The most common and popular styles include a fair bit of tomato as well.  Memphis style barbecue sauces do both. 

    For what it's worth, the Jack Daniels sauce may rely on Tennessee "sippin' whiskey," but it's not a Memphis or Tennessee style sauce -- it's a whiskey sauce.   

    A typical, super-market style barbecue sauce (like Bullseye or Baby Ray's) might call for a little bit less than a 1/2 cup of vinegar per three or four cups of ketchup, but a Memphis style sauce would usually call for more vinegar than that.  As far as I know, other than "Memphis style," there isn't a distinctive Tennessee style sauce.  Also, even when it comes to something as distinctive as balancing the vinegar against the tomato -- there are no actual rules.  Interstate's barbecue sauce uses the same tomato/vinegar ratio as a typical super-market sauce.  

    But regional rumination aside, what's really got me going about this thread is:  What is it exactly that you want?

    It seems like you want someone to take your ingredient list and write a complete recipe with amounts and techniques for you so you don't have to waste ingredients.  If that's what you want, I can create a fairly mainstream Memphis style sauce for you which uses -- among other things -- adobo from canned chipotles, but it won't be your sauce, it will be mine.  If you want more general information regarding techniques and ratios, I can do that too -- but it will still require a lot of trial and error on your part to get it right.   

    A few guidelines just to get you started:
    • It's a better idea to either slice and grill your aromatics and then chop them, or chop them raw, and soften them in a bit of oil or butter, build your sauce on top of them, and then puree the sauce, rather than pureeing them at any time (raw or cooked) prior to putting them in the sauce;
    • Don't bother making brown sugar outside the sauce.  If you're looking for a brown sugar taste by combining molasses and white sugar, you can do it in the sauce itself.  Figure 3tbs of molasses per cup of sugar for very light brown sugar, and a 1/2 cup of molasses per cup of sugar for very dark brown sugar.  Anything in between is something in between; and
    • If you're looking for same level of smokiness that you find in commercial barbecue sauces, you're going to need at least some liquid smoke.  You can't get it from chipotles, and certainly not from chipotle adobo. 
    BDL
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  7. Iceman

    Iceman

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    BDL ... Why does one "make" a brown sugar instead of just using a brown sugar?     TIA my friend, for the education.
     
  8. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    So you have control over the molasses amount, at least so it seems to me.
     
  9. brianshaw

    brianshaw

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    @BDL (and OP).  I spent a lot of time in TN - around Clarksville, if you know where that is - eating BBQ as much as possible.  My experience is that TN BBQ is more about the meat than the sauce.  Smoked pulled pork, specifically.  The sauce itself wasn't whiskey-based and it wasn't very complex.  When I've replicated my TN BBQ experience the best sauce to match my recollectionof the taste was Bullseye, "watered down" because TN sauce was thinner than what come out of the bottle.  The sauce at the black-owned BBQ joints was even thinner, hotter (spice-wise), and often a tad more vinegary.  Another important aspect of TN BBQ was corn cake.  Maybe BBQ is different in other parts of TN, but what I described above is my recollection (rumination?) for BBQ within a 100 mile radius of Nashville.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2013
  10. brianshaw

    brianshaw

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    p.s.  My rumination is htat the smoke was only on the meat, never in the sauce.  :)  Maybe that is being pedantic... but after trying to "fake" smoked meat by spiking sauce with liquid smoke I realize that trying to infuse smoke into BBQ via the sauce is a waste of time.
     
  11. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Not only do you have complete control with molasses + white sugar, homemade brown sugar is cheaper. 

    Getting back to the subject at hand, most "Memphis" style barbecue sauces are pretty dark, and most of that dark color comes from molasses.  Molasses also gives more "bite" in the back of the throat but with less "edge" on the tongue than white sugar.  I usually make my tomato based barbecue sauces using a combination of molasses plus honey for its smoothness or maple syrup for its affinity with pork.   

    You take your best shot at the profile you want... but you're still going to have to tweak, tweak again, and tweak some more to get everything to balance.

    BDL
     
  12. Iceman

    Iceman

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    Thanks.   For Me, I don't use processed white sugar for anything.    
     
  13. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    If you use ordinary brown sugar, you're using processed white sugar.  Brown sugar is made by mixing white sugar with molasses.

    BDL
     
  14. Iceman

    Iceman

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    LOL.   Did I say that I used "ordinary brown sugar"?
     
  15. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Ice wrote:
    No.  You did not. 

    With that out of the way...

    Brian wrote:
    For my own part, I agree.  But most people are used to bottled commercial sauces with liquid smoke in them; that's what they expect from barbecue sauce; and it's not something I'm prepared to judge.  I try to make people happy with my 'q, so I'll separate out some sauce and add smoke to it for anyone who wants that.  The one thing I won't do is prep meat for indoor cooking with liquid smoke.  That's not for religious reasons, but because it's so easy for me to smoke outside; there are so may good preps without smoke; and I struggle with getting the levels right.     

    You said a lot of other interesting things about Memphis barbecue and led me to believe that we share some common tastes, but you've spent a lot more time in and around Memphis than me and know the local joints.  There's no substitute for that kind of knowledge, and certainly no substitute for the fun acquiring it either.   Most of my contact is with people who cook Memphis style whom I know from comp or who cook professionally.  For instance, Jay Bee's in Gardena is owned by a Neely (Interstate BBQ) sister.   

    One thing you didn't come right out and say was that Memphis barbecue is as well known for "dry" as it is for sauced barbecue.  So, that's yet another thing.  Sauced or dry, you've got to get the underlying rub right. 

    I still want to hear more from Spammar because I'd like to help him out doing whatever it is he wants to do, if I can. 

    BDL 
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  16. duckfat

    duckfat

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    I've always thought TN is a little dyslexic in this regard. They seem quite split between dry rub and vinegar/tomato sauce. Texas OTOH is all about the Meat.

    +1 on the Corn Cake.

    Dave
     
  17. spammar

    spammar

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    okay lotsa people posted do this is gonna be a long one please bear with the spelling and other mistakes its 3 am and i havent slept in at least i have no idea almost 2 days or something 

    i must have insomnia 
    its not that i want somone to do it for me its that i want something more to work with so i have less chances to waste.

    ahh puree it as a whole the blender i have is abit small so that's why i wanted to puree them seperate does that change the flavor or texture at all? and the brulee and roasted bell and onion iwas thinking a small bitter bite trying to get all five major flavor groups. but with the sise of jack bottles i probably can make two batches one with the roast and brulee and the other with a autee or sweat as my grill decided to die on me :( 

    as for the smoke i was thinking mild which chipoltle adobo has or atleast the brand that I prefer.

    I already have ideas so i guess what i am looking for is more of a a conference of minds. 

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BrianShaw  


    .  My experience is that TN BBQ is more about the meat than the sauce.  Smoked pulled pork, specifically.  

    ahh i did not know that thank you for that bit of information:) 
    edit was to fix some of the mistakes
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  18. spammar

    spammar

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    i would like to thank you all for the help with this you have given me so far! :) 
     
  19. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    With enough whiskey, barbecue sauces aren't "Memphis" or "Tennessee" style, they're "whiskey" style.  I'm not sure where to draw the line, but when you've got as much whiskey as tomato, you're well over it.  People may call it "Tennessee" but they're really saying "Jack Daniels."   

    There are a bunch of regional "styles" for tomato based barbecue sauces.  How meaningful are the differences?  Not terribly; because there's so much variation from cook to cook. 

    But if you tried to put some meaning into it, you'd say that the regional differences in tomato based sauces lie in their balance of sweet and sour, and in the amount and type of heat.  Memphis style sauces are more vinegar, less tomato and almost as sweet as KC; not as sweet as Georgia style.  On the other hand, their balance is decidedly less vinegar, less sweet, less heat and more tomato than Carolina sauces.  As with most regional styles, the "tomato" is usually provided in the form of ketchup -- which not only brings a well-cooked tomato flavor but a lot of smoked clove as well as a bunch of other spices.   

    Still, the key to making your own regionally representative barbecue sauce or barbecue rubs is balance.  You can skew it to one side or another, but you usually can't tip it over and still get good results.

    I've got a few tomato based barbecue sauces in my repertoire which either balance in different ways or bring along certain ingredients which I think are pleasing.  As it happens, you could pass my "basic" barbecue sauce off for "Memphis style" because of the relative amounts of vinegar to tomato, and because its sweet enough to satisfy without being sweet enough to cloy.  However, because its got some stuff going in it which isn't particularly Memphis or regional at all -- just stuff that makes for a better rounded, more pleasing sauce.  It's the recipe I'm going to adapt for you to make use of your ingredients.

    BASIC BARBECUE SAUCE - MEMPHIS STYLE

    Ingredients:
    •    1 medium onion
    •    1/2 bell pepper
    •    3 cloves garlic
    •    2 chipotle peppers (from a can of chipotles en adobo)
    •    1 tbs corn oil (or other neutral flavored oil, bacon fat or lard)
    •    4 tbs cold butter, divided
    •    2 tbs adobo (from the same can of chipotles en adobo)
    •    2 tbs crushed red pepper flakes
    •    1 tbs smoked paprika
    •    1 tsp dry mustard (or 1/4 cup prepared, yellow mustard)
    •    1/4 cup Bourbon whiskey (or use rum or cognac)
    •    1 cup roasted chicken stock (or use beef stock, or 1/2 cup each beef and chicken stock)
    •    3 cups ketchup
    •    1-1/2 cup cider vinegar (or, 1 cup vinegar + 1/2 cup lemon juice)
    •    1 cup molasses
    •    1/2 cup honey (or white sugar, "Sugar In The Raw," etc.)
    •    1/2 cup Worcestershire sauce
    •    1 double shot, brewed espresso coffee (or use 1 tsp instant coffee crystals)
    •    1 tsp to 1 tbs fresh, coarse-ground black pepper
    •    Liquid smoke (optional), to taste
    •    Tabasco or other brand Chipotle sauce (optional), to taste
    •    Agave nectar (optional), to taste

    Technique:
    Chop the onion, bell pepper to fine dice.  Mince the garlic and chipotle very fine.

    Preheat a sauce pan to saute temp.

    Add the oil to the pan, and when that’s hot, add 2 tbs butter.  Swirl the pan.  Do not allow the butter to burn.  Remove it from the heat for a moment or two if necessary.  The butter will foam as it melts.  When the foam begins to subside add the chopped onions and peppers.

    Saute, stirring as necessary, until the onion and pepper soften.    

    Add the chipotle and garlic.  Saute, stirring, until the garlic is fragrant.  

    Add the adobo, red pepper flakes, paprika, and mustard (if using dry mustard).  Cook a bit longer to get the “raw” is off the paprika – no more than a couple of minutes.

    Deglaze the pan with whiskey (or other spirits).  Bring to the boil.  You may flame it off if you like.  

    Add the stock, bring to a boil, reduce to a simmer.  Simmer for ten minutes, uncovered to cook the alcohol off and allow the flavors to begin to marry.  Taste and adjust for salt if necessary.

    Add while whisking, the ketchup, vinegar, molasses, honey, Worcestershire, mustard (if using prepared mustard), and coffee until everything is well combined.  Increase the heat to medium-high, bring to a boil, whisking gently.  

    Reduce to a simmer.  Simmer for ten minutes, whisking occasionally.  Taste for sweet/sour balance.  To increase the sour, add more vinegar (duh); to increase sweetness you may add molasses, honey or white sugar as desired.  Quantities are “to taste.”  Remember that you’re not fixing the levels for the final sauce, but only adjusting the balance.  

    Add the black pepper in an amount so that it is just barely visible in the sauce, but not too peppery for your own tastes.   

    Reduce the sauce at a simmer until it is just a bit thinner than your desired consistency (probably an additional forty minutes), stirring occasionally.

    If you want to use liquid smoke, add it.  Most liquid smoke brands (Wright’s, for instance) are extremely concentrated.  Easy does it.  Add it a few drops at a time.  Taste, then taste again before adding more.

    Taste and adjust for salt, “heat,” vinegar, sweet.  Add salt, Chipotle hot sauce, vinegar, honey (or agave nectar) to taste.  Be conservative when adding additional hot sauce, people who like a lot of heat are fully capable of adding hot sauce at the table.  Honey and agave are better choices to add sweetness than molasses or sugar at this stage because their flavors mature so much quicker.  

    Simmer for as long as necessary to allow the flavors to completely marry and for the sauce to reach its final, desired consistency, about ten minutes more.

    There are several ways to finish the sauce depending on the desired texture.  You can leave it as is, and “chunky;” you can strain out the aromatic veg (they’ve already surrendered their flavor);  or you can “blitz” the sauce with a stick or regular blender.  One way isn’t better than another, it’s strictly “to taste.”  

    When you've done whatever it is you're going to do, return the sauce to the pan and to a simmer.  Cut the remaining two tbs butter into four pieces, and whisk them one by one into the sauce.

    Taste and adjust for salt and pepper.  

    Enjoy,
    BDL
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013
  20. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Okay so make the sauce then puree rather than pureeing the individual ingredient(s)?  Handling the finished product is easier.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2013