Substituting Lard For Butter Quiche Dough Failed

Discussion in 'Pastries & Baking' started by kokopuffs, Mar 16, 2016.

  1. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    I failed at making this quiche dough where, for the first time, mangalitsa lard was substituted for butter.

    I am totally livid and p*ssed.  Take a look at the photos below of the dough.  It was rolled out immediately after being taken from the fridge.  And the dough has fallen apart.  Unlike butter, the overpriced mangalitsa lard feels totally liquidy right from the fridge and look at how the dough has fallen apart on the rolling pin and rolling mat.  I can't work it and so it was thrown away.  Was this lard somewhat unrendered????  Does it seem to have a high water content?  I have never ever encountered this problem before using butter.  And there's almost a whole layer of lard remaining on my rolling pin in spite of dusting it and the rolling mat with generous amounts of flour.  What a waste of ingredients.

    And when I weighed the 4 oz of lard, it seemed to occupy twice the volume of 4 oz (one stick) of butter.

    6 oz flour

    4 oz fat and this time its mangalitsa lard

    2 oz water


     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  2. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Several hours have passed and I'm not so livid, this is what what happened based on observations and feel of the dough:

    Probably the fat wasn't fully rendered resulting in a soggy dough.  Over hydrated.  What I plan to do is take the weight of the lard before and after I render it.  We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  3. chefross

    chefross

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    koko, whenever you substitute an ingredient, it isn't always going to work the way it did with the original ingredient.

    Perhaps using lard instead of butter may require the addition of extra flour to counteract the fat. 1 cup of flour to 1 stick of butter may work, but using a different fat may have been your problem. Try again. It's not the lard.
     
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  4. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    It IS the lard.  8))  Perhaps I should use either more flour or reduce the amount of lard.  Again four ounces of the lard I used occupies twice the volume of a similar weight of butter.  Naive me, I would have thought that a 1 to 1 substitution could be made!
     
  5. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    In the lard making process, they add a bit of water. They could cook it long enough to melt the fat, but not evaporate the water out.  So you can have different levels of water content.

    Butters can also have different amounts of water.  If you compare American to European butter for example, the American ones have more water
     
  6. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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  7. brianshaw

    brianshaw

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    This is one of those times when I wish Rulman wrote another chapter to explain that sometimes his ratios need to be adapted. It's no wonder that most other pastry recipe books have different formula depending on the fat used, or combinations of fat.
     
  8. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    At least Ruhlman gets one into the ballpark as long as his ratios and ingredients are followed.  But yes, lard is truly a different animal as it were.  But I'm sticking to my guns.  Later on I plan to take eight ounces of my M. lard and render it some more and it's weight will be taken before and after the procedure just to see what I obtain.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  9. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    You are over thinking this, koko.

    The most hip and expensive ingredients are not always the best.

    Pick up the regular cheap lard (green box) from WM or a large supermarket.

    Save the fancy expensive stuff for some other application.

    Re-rendering?

    Lordy girl you are gonna be the death of me lol  ;-)

    mimi

    Edit to add....if your fat is soft and fluffy at room temp the pastry will be way too soft at room temp.

    m.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  10. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    I don't sing soprano because I am a man!!!!!!!   /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif

    I've read that M lard makes for THE FLAKEYIST crust.  

    Someone mentioned that lard is extremely high in unsaturated fats and therefore remains "liquid" at refrigerator (and room) temperatures.  Therefore the dough made with lard should be rolled out right from the freezer.  (There should be no intermittent defrosting).
     
  11. chefwriter

    chefwriter

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    Kokopuffs, 

         Sorry this experience made you mad. Except for the expense of specialty ingredients, I quite enjoy those experiences. I wish you hadn't thrown the dough out.

        When faced with the original situation I would have simply added more flour and adjusted, recipe be damned. These are great learning experiences for me because there is no chef or owner to yell at you or customers to disappoint.  At home I view recipes more as a guide than an absolute, adjusting whatever I like to see what effect it has. 

    I love the idea of re-rendering it and weighing before and after. My engineer father would highly approve. I'm looking forward to the results. 
     
  12. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    Sorry for stepping on your gender!!!

    You have signed a few PM's with your given name and now that I think about it it is one of those "handles" that can swing either way.

    About what you have read....I guess every opinion and recipe on the internet is not always trustworthy.

    Never having used the stated brand I did a short google search and the only baked product recipe offered was biscuits.

    Maybe you have a different source for recipes?

    mimi
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  13. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    Lard is a saturated fat .....

    Maybe a typo?

    mimi
     
  14. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    Lard is 38–43% saturated fat and the rest unsaturated.  
     
  15. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    So which is it?

    Saturated or not?

    mimi
     
  16. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    Mixture of both.  More unsaturated than butter, but less than oils.  Exact composition depends on the breed, the diet. etc.   A pig eating grain on a farm will have different fat than one foraging for hazelnuts.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  17. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    Makes sense.

    To be honest I have never "studied" lard....just learned how to use it lol.

    Never had a problem with my doughs falling apart and I sub one to one.

    If after resting it feels too soft I just work a bit more flour in when I am rolling it out.

    mimi
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  18. brianshaw

    brianshaw

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    Not long ago I had a Crisco dough that looked just like Koko's. It was too much water. Adding more flour fixed it but it still wasn't as good as if made right the first time. I know what went wrong - I dumped the water, per the ratio, without acknowledging that the dough didn't need it all. Frustrating, but an opportunity for continued learning. We all have bad days!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
  19. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    But I've heard that Manga lard is higher than most lard in unsaturated fats.
     
  20. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    I should have exercised more patience (sheesh).  But being higher in unsaturated fats, the dough and fat will act more "liquidy" therefore soggy at room temperature.  (EDIT)  Probably more flour/less water and rolling out right from the freezer would have solved the issue.  We'll see as time goes on.  M lard at $10 a pound is, indeed, a bit steep!
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016