So sad....

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I still do not think you can equally compare them with skills like plumbers and electricians. The reason these trades can get away with a $75/hr rate is because the average consumer does not need them that often. I also don't really want to set a standard for chef salaries as this should be dictated by locale, supply and demand, individual skill, ect. not a government mandated training.

This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

However; I do not agree.
I found during a Google search that plumbers can make as much as $50,000 (median income) and electricians as much as $71,000 for their work.
Both trades can endure some pretty bad situations.
Who's going to argue that preparing and serving 3,000 people at once or putting out 400 covers on a very busy night is just as bad, if not worse than anything those trades can come up with.?
Yet, the plumber and electrician command a higher salary simply because they are not needed as much?
Bogus, to say the least.
 
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Ok! That's it...

I'm going solve all these issues and start a professional chefs organization here in the states to steer the direction of professional food service and call it... Ummmmmm.

The American Culinary Federation!
No, wait a minute, maybe we could call it the National Restaurant Association!
International Food Service Executives Association?
What do you mean all those names are taken???
Wouldn't an organization such as these take lead on these issues? Must not be a clear answer for the huge variety of possible food operations.

Main difference between other trades and ours. Final product must meet code in other trades, our only code is sanitation and handling, not meeting some code of tenderness, ingredients, presentation, flavor, etc. of what hits the table. In one sense all trades do have one commonality, safety for the customer. At least on paper...
 
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This is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

However; I do not agree.
I found during a Google search that plumbers can make as much as $50,000 (median income) and electricians as much as $71,000 for their work.
Both trades can endure some pretty bad situations.
Who's going to argue that preparing and serving 3,000 people at once or putting out 400 covers on a very busy night is just as bad, if not worse than anything those trades can come up with.?
Yet, the plumber and electrician command a higher salary simply because they are not needed as much?
Bogus, to say the least.
Sorry if my point was not clear, as what you are replying to was not what I meant. I know all jobs have their ups and downs and not saying one is inherently harder than the other thus justifying the wages. I was talking about the point that another poster was making about all the training and qualifications being a base justification for that said work. My point being when you call in a plumber or such and he quotes you a few hundred bucks to fix something you may gripe about it but you are generally going to get the work done because you need to and hopefully it isn't a constant or recurring problem and thus expense. Using that same posters line of logic if we mandate certain training and qualifications and in turn use that to increase the salary levels of culinary professionals, it may be a harder sell to someone who will be picking up the difference in their meal bill. Not to mention that home or business repairs are generally viewed as a need as opposed to eating out as a want. At least for me if my car breaks down and I have to shell out some money for it I have to just shrug it off because I need my car. But if all of a sudden the cost of going out to my favorite take away has increased to cover costs related to government mandated programs, than I am going to have a little more of a problem with it, even if the cost is ultimately less. My opinion was that generally I would believe people eat out more often that they call trades people in for work. Because of this difference in frequency, it isn't a clear path in my mind to compare the two categories of trades and declare that since these things work in trade A than it would be a similar outcome in trade B.
 
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Ok! That's it...

I'm going solve all these issues and start a professional chefs organization here in the states to steer the direction of professional food service and call it... Ummmmmm.

The American Culinary Federation!
No, wait a minute, maybe we could call it the National Restaurant Association!
International Food Service Executives Association?
What do you mean all those names are taken???
Wouldn't an organization such as these take lead on these issues? Must not be a clear answer for the huge variety of possible food operations.

Main difference between other trades and ours. Final product must meet code in other trades, our only code is sanitation and handling, not meeting some code of tenderness, ingredients, presentation, flavor, etc. of what hits the table. In one sense all trades do have one commonality, safety for the customer. At least on paper...
I'm glad you brought these up and I'm sure these organizations would love to have the government step in and declare that their teachings should be the standard and requirement. The problem I have with this is that all of a sudden people will be paying fees to take classes and get a piece of paper showing that they are now certified in things they already knew and probably learned for free. These large organizations (not specifically food service) are notoriously lazy when it comes to good continuing education and at the end of the day will just enrich a handful of people.
 
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No one’s comparing cooking experience to plumbing. If you re read that post you’ll find it deals with creativity.

That being said, how much creativity do you want a line cook to have? Follow the ( deleted) menu, follow orders creativity is more for chefs, not cooks.

I do agree that cooking is as stepping stone to other things hospitality related.

The reason other trades get away with $75/hr is because the Unions set the rates, so everyone from the 1-man indie to the mega-firm charge that, or more. Then again, the Unions also work closely with the trades schools to design curriculum, and with municipal gov’ts in regards to codes.

Since I sold the business I’ve been working p/t at numerous places and catering co’s around the city. Everyone here is screaming for experienced cooks, but no one pays more than $22/hr. In this city a dumpy 1 bdrm. basement suite will cost upwards of $750/mths if you want to be within an hour’s travel time to the workplace. Most local kids now work with tele-marketing after high school rather than in kitchens—except for servers, because the money is better.
Cooks around here are becoming very hard to find, and even harder to retain because the cost of living doesn’t match the salary.

At the last two catering co’s I worked at, 60% of the labour in the kitchen was done by foreign students on 8-12 mths visas. I was spending hours every week training some bright Brazilian mechanical engineer or 3rd year H.R. student how to peel melons or cut friggin carrot sticks. This time around I’m showing newbies how the piping bag tip goes IN the piping bag and not outside. Needless to say Im a bit frustrated.
 
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Ok! That's it...

I'm going solve all these issues and start a professional chefs organization here in the states to steer the direction of professional food service and call it... Ummmmmm.

The American Culinary Federation!
No, wait a minute, maybe we could call it the National Restaurant Association!
International Food Service Executives Association?
What do you mean all those names are taken???
Wouldn't an organization such as these take lead on these issues? Must not be a clear answer for the huge variety of possible food operations.

Main difference between other trades and ours. Final product must meet code in other trades, our only code is sanitation and handling, not meeting some code of tenderness, ingredients, presentation, flavor, etc. of what hits the table. In one sense all trades do have one commonality, safety for the customer. At least on paper...

That's because it's all about money. The ACF isn't even recognized by our government.
 
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Sorry if my point was not clear, as what you are replying to was not what I meant. I know all jobs have their ups and downs and not saying one is inherently harder than the other thus justifying the wages. I was talking about the point that another poster was making about all the training and qualifications being a base justification for that said work. My point being when you call in a plumber or such and he quotes you a few hundred bucks to fix something you may gripe about it but you are generally going to get the work done because you need to and hopefully it isn't a constant or recurring problem and thus expense. Using that same posters line of logic if we mandate certain training and qualifications and in turn use that to increase the salary levels of culinary professionals, it may be a harder sell to someone who will be picking up the difference in their meal bill. Not to mention that home or business repairs are generally viewed as a need as opposed to eating out as a want. At least for me if my car breaks down and I have to shell out some money for it I have to just shrug it off because I need my car. But if all of a sudden the cost of going out to my favorite take away has increased to cover costs related to government mandated programs, than I am going to have a little more of a problem with it, even if the cost is ultimately less. My opinion was that generally I would believe people eat out more often that they call trades people in for work. Because of this difference in frequency, it isn't a clear path in my mind to compare the two categories of trades and declare that since these things work in trade A than it would be a similar outcome in trade B.

Oh I understood very clearly, but I still maintain that under your reasoning then....a cook must competently have a baseline knowledge and qualifications to justify their wages.
Yes people eat out more than they need or use a plumber, so what?
What's your point? Simply because we use an electrician once in a blue moon or same with a plumber that they shall get more money for their expertise than a cook?
I'm sorry I still don't get your justifications.
Without mandated policies, rules, and laws, set in place for all cooks and all eating establishments, other than food safety, there is disorganization. Employees are not trained well in all aspects of the kitchen before they are put on the line our out in the dining room. You see it and I see it when we dine out. Please explain why you think that just because we don't use a trade as much that they should command such a high wage?
I can't stress enough after having devoted 48 years of my life to food and my career only to have people like you tell me I'm not worth as much as a plumber or electrician. I worked very hard and sweat gallons, and so did all the people that worked right along side me.

Sorry....I'm too angry to continue typing....
 
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chefross chefross , You must have had a better experience with cooks than I did. The ones I worked with skipped around town like they had a degree. They always wanted more hours only to not show up the next day. They never ask to add more responsibility but of course they wanted more money. Of course they were never happy about the raise they just got. They would now work on the next raise and again not wanting more responsibility. In many cases a Chef has to over staff a kitchen just to make sure they have enough people to accomplish what's needed for prep and service.
The problem is cooks are employees that only want to punch-in and punch-out without any responsibility. If cooks did their job and took on more there wouldn't be a problem with paying them more.
The more you're needed the more you're worth. I remember telling a fellow Chef " If your applying for a job you'll never make what you're worth." You make the real money when an employer seeks you out.

foodpump foodpump , brings up that no one pays more than $22 an hr. Then we talk about how high rent is in a Tourist destination city. IMHO if you want to live in this kind of a city don't expect to have a real good living/house or social life. I started my career in Honolulu, Hawaii. After living there, getting married there and having our first child there, I realized I couldn't make the amount of money needed to give my family a quality life.
The cooks making $22 hr aren't worth that amount of money. They just have to have people/cooks in the kitchen broiling that $60 steak, $25 hamburger and $18 hotdog. My feeling is, if you can't afford to live in a big city and work a job that you could be replaced easily, then get the Hell to a place that you could afford and live a life you could afford.
This is all about supply and demand. Supply an employee at whatever cost to sell a food product at any cost.
I've said this many times. You'll never make a lot of money in this business working for someone else. The real money comes when you take a risk and own your own. I don't feel sorry for any cook that's making $15 Hr. It's up to them to learn and move up. As an owner It's not easy to make a profit in this business. The only way is to control costs, employees are a controllable cost. The reality is, if you want more you need to be worth more........ChefBillyB
 
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chefross chefross , You must have had a better experience with cooks than I did. The ones I worked with skipped around town like they had a degree. They always wanted more hours only to not show up the next day. They never ask to add more responsibility but of course they wanted more money. Of course they were never happy about the raise they just got. They would now work on the next raise and again not wanting more responsibility. In many cases a Chef has to over staff a kitchen just to make sure they have enough people to accomplish what's needed for prep and service.
The problem is cooks are employees that only want to punch-in and punch-out without any responsibility. If cooks did their job and took on more there wouldn't be a problem with paying them more.
The more you're needed the more you're worth. I remember telling a fellow Chef " If your applying for a job you'll never make what you're worth." You make the real money when an employer seeks you out.

foodpump foodpump , brings up that no one pays more than $22 an hr. Then we talk about how high rent is in a Tourist destination city. IMHO if you want to live in this kind of a city don't expect to have a real good living/house or social life. I started my career in Honolulu, Hawaii. After living there, getting married there and having our first child there, I realized I couldn't make the amount of money needed to give my family a quality life.
The cooks making $22 hr aren't worth that amount of money. They just have to have people/cooks in the kitchen broiling that $60 steak, $25 hamburger and $18 hotdog. My feeling is, if you can't afford to live in a big city and work a job that you could be replaced easily, then get the Hell to a place that you could afford and live a life you could afford.
This is all about supply and demand. Supply an employee at whatever cost to sell a food product at any cost.
I've said this many times. You'll never make a lot of money in this business working for someone else. The real money comes when you take a risk and own your own. I don't feel sorry for any cook that's making $15 Hr. It's up to them to learn and move up. As an owner It's not easy to make a profit in this business. The only way is to control costs, employees are a controllable cost. The reality is, if you want more you need to be worth more........ChefBillyB
At least you seem to be understanding in some of the points I am trying to make. The fact of the matter is this all goes back to the premise of letting the government mandate what qualifications a cook has to have and then forcing the average line cook to go through it. It also boils down to logistics, if someone's dream in life is to open a hot dog cart why would they have to go through a program to learn mother sauces and protein fabrication. And if you want to break training down into tiers based on expected job duties how would you ever cross train or allow someone to move up without having to go back and get a certification.
 
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Oh I understood very clearly, but I still maintain that under your reasoning then....a cook must competently have a baseline knowledge and qualifications to justify their wages.
Yes people eat out more than they need or use a plumber, so what?
What's your point? Simply because we use an electrician once in a blue moon or same with a plumber that they shall get more money for their expertise than a cook?
I'm sorry I still don't get your justifications.
Without mandated policies, rules, and laws, set in place for all cooks and all eating establishments, other than food safety, there is disorganization. Employees are not trained well in all aspects of the kitchen before they are put on the line our out in the dining room. You see it and I see it when we dine out. Please explain why you think that just because we don't use a trade as much that they should command such a high wage?
I can't stress enough after having devoted 48 years of my life to food and my career only to have people like you tell me I'm not worth as much as a plumber or electrician. I worked very hard and sweat gallons, and so did all the people that worked right along side me.

Sorry....I'm too angry to continue typing....
My point on frequency of trade use is not about wage justification for the employees rather than pointing out that you cannot compare the different trades equally. Another poster was talking about how certifications and documented qualifications would merit a baseline standard for culinary professionals, as it does in some other trades. I am just saying that I believe these trades can get away with their pricing because of frequency and need rather than the customer taking stock of how much training or education the worker has.

We already have mandated laws in place for food establishments, but it should be up to the individual business to decided about the training and policies as these will be much more specific for whatever they produce. Why should some government entity get to say that all workers at diners have to know and be able to do X and all workers at fine dining need to know and be able to do Y? The fact that there are places where service and food may not be up to customer satisfaction relates to that articular business' failures, not a open invitation for oversight from the government.

I commend you for practicing your trade for so long, and I mean do disrespect but the fact of the matter is that no matter how long you are in a career, there will always be outside factors that will come into play to alter your compensation. One of them being basic supply and demand. As I stated before, in my particular area the demand for skilled workers in construction trades, especially HVAC is far outpacing the supply. Thus companies are hiring at obscene rates even fresh out of technical school. In comparison higher skilled culinary labor is shorter, but the market is flooded with fast casual establishments and workers. Longevity in a career does not always equate better compensation either. You could devote 48 years of your life to digging ditches if you wanted, and I'm sure it would be back breaking work and you could have pride in that work and determination. But that person will never be "worth" compensation wise as much as say a electrician or lineman even right our of school. It is not degrading one trade or skill over the other simply stating that some jobs are worth more than others and trying to artificially inflate these wages to be more fair and in line to what you believe they should be by government order is not realistic.
 
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if someone's dream in life is to open a hot dog cart why would they have to go through a program to learn mother sauces and protein fabrication.
There can be different levels of certification.

In California, if someone wants to work in a restaurant, they need to have a food handlers card. If they want to be in management, they need a more extended food handler certification card.

There can be different levels of certification. Take electricians for example, in California the levels are
apprentice, journeyman, master, contractor. If an electrician wants to be the equivalent of a hot dog cart worker, he doesn't necessarily need to get a contractor certification.

I am actually neither pro or con on certification. I just know that in a crunch situation if I needed a hollandaise made and had to delegate the task, I would trust an 18 year old that I had trained in making hollandaise more than I would blindly trust a 20 year restaurant veteran with a culinary degree and a CC certification.
 
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Yet why do we trust our lives (literally) when we dine out or take in, to someone we know nothing about who cooks our food?
It saddens me to say, but most people don' hold putting food on the table in very high regard. After all, when they were growing up their mothers put food on the table everyday and they had no formal training whatsoever, but their mothers couldn't put in a toilet or a run a new light switch.
 
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What's your point? Simply because we use an electrician once in a blue moon or same with a plumber that they shall get more money for their expertise than a cook?

Please explain why you think that just because we don't use a trade as much that they should command such a high wage?
The plumber isn't getting more because of this - people are willing to pay more because of need vs want. If nobody is paying for a service, it doesn't matter what the salary is, there won't be any job at all.

As someone with with little money to spare, I fully admit I will drop the big bucks (even using credit if need be) to have something fixed (if I cannot repair it myself) because I need it. If I walk into a restaurant and the food costs more than I can spare, I will not eat there - because I don't need to - I can cook for myself or go somewhere cheaper.

If I needed a plumber once a week for some strange reason, I would learn to do more of that for myself as well.

I can't stress enough after having devoted 48 years of my life to food and my career only to have people like you tell me I'm not worth as much as a plumber or electrician. I worked very hard and sweat gallons, and so did all the people that worked right along side me.
Nobody is saying you are not worth as much as a plumber, but you are not as necessary as one to a large portion of the population. Not everyone gets to enjoy fine dining. It's like saying people who cannot afford you or your worth don't get to eat out.
 
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most people don' hold putting food on the table in very high regard
Think about it. How many people every year open a restaurant with zero restaurant experience under their belts? How many people open a plumbing service or electrical service with zero experience in those industries?
 
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Hi Seoul Food,

As I’ve stated before, the reason many trades charge upwards of $75/hr is because their Unions have set these rates.

It’s true that cooking and other trades are not the same—if you get your brakes or furnace done by an unlicensed professional, your insurance won’t cover you in the event of an accident. Then again the trade unions invest heavily in educating their members and working closely with schools and municipalities.
I seriously doubt if any hospitality union has Invested anything, let alone inform members of what’s in the pot or, gawd forbid, circulate a yearly audited financial statement, as required by law. But I digress..

The worst enemy of the hospitality industry is ourselves— there’s just too much competition for the dining dollar.

Chefbillyb, I understand Honolulu is an expensive place to live, and so is Vancouver. The restaurants aren’t charging peanuts,and they aren’t paying peanut rent either. So how do you run a business that requires stafff to live within an hour’s worth of travel time, acknowledge that even the most basic of accommodations in this zone will require 60-70% of the employee’s paycheck, and still expect employees to sit up and beg for this? Either you get the dumb ones, or you get the the ones who last two weeks, but no one’s going to sit up and beg for this. Compound this with culinary school loans, and you get parents pleading with their kids to smarten up and get out of this crazy industry.

Just today the H.r. mngr of the catering co. I work at proudly announced a $150 payment to anyone who can bring in new staff, provided they pass a 1 mths probation period....
 
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Chefbillyb, I understand Honolulu is an expensive place to live, and so is Vancouver. The restaurants aren’t charging peanuts,and they aren’t paying peanut rent either. So how do you run a business that requires stafff to live within an hour’s worth of travel time, acknowledge that even the most basic of accommodations in this zone will require 60-70% of the employee’s paycheck, and still expect employees to sit up and beg for this? Either you get the dumb ones, or you get the the ones who last two weeks, but no one’s going to sit up and beg for this. Compound this with culinary school loans, and you get parents pleading with their kids to smarten up and get out of this crazy industry.

Just today the H.r. mngr of the catering co. I work at proudly announced a $150 payment to anyone who can bring in new staff, provided they pass a 1 mths probation period....
Chef, I have seen some of the restaurants in my area giving a $500 sign on bonus. My area is short of experienced cooks. This isn't a metropolitan area, our growth is in wine, wine tours and Ag.
There isn't very many good options for the cook or the owner in Vancouver. It's not like the restaurant owner could provide housing. The employer can only pay so much before costs get way out of line.
If I was an owner I would try to innovate using less employees. If I'm the employee I would get the Hell out of Dodge.
I know in my business I had a terrible employee base. I kept a few good employees and payed them well. I did the rest with Family. I had no choice, it's either sink or swim. I also innovated and cut my labor in half. I can see the robots knocking on the restaurant door soon. The marketplace has no choice but to figure it out.......ChefBillyB
 
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No one’s comparing cooking experience to plumbing. If you re read that post you’ll find it deals with creativity.

That being said, how much creativity do you want a line cook to have? Follow the ( deleted) menu, follow orders creativity is more for chefs, not cooks.

I do agree that cooking is as stepping stone to other things hospitality related.

The reason other trades get away with $75/hr is because the Unions set the rates, so everyone from the 1-man indie to thea job in the kitchen from a friend there and have never gone outside the
No one’s comparing cooking experience to plumbing. If you re read that post you’ll find it deals with creativity.

That being said, how much creativity do you want a line cook to have? Follow the ( deleted) menu, follow orders creativity is more for chefs, not cooks.

I do agree that cooking is as stepping stone to other things hospitality related.

The reason other trades get away with $75/hr is because the Unions set the rates, so everyone from the 1-man indie to the mega-firm charge that, or more. Then again, the Unions also work closely with the trades schools to design curriculum, and with municipal gov’ts in regards to codes.

Since I sold the business I’ve been working p/t at numerous places and catering co’s around the city. Everyone here is screaming for experienced cooks, but no one pays more than $22/hr. In this city a dumpy 1 bdrm. basement suite will cost upwards of $750/mths if you want to be within an hour’s travel time to the workplace. Most local kids now work with tele-marketing after high school rather than in kitchens—except for servers, because the money is better.
Cooks around here are becoming very hard to find, and even harder to retain because the cost of living doesn’t match the salary.

At the last two catering co’s I worked at, 60% of the labour in the kitchen was done by foreign students on 8-12 mths visas. I was spending hours every week training some bright Brazilian mechanical engineer or 3rd year H.R. student how to peel melons or cut friggin carrot sticks. This time around I’m showing newbies how the piping bag tip goes IN the piping bag and not outside. Needless to say Im a bit frustrated.
I live in a very small town (college town, tourist trap) where a dumpy (and i mean DUMPY) one bedroom apartment is going to start around 800, and if you grab a line cook job here, it's very unlikely you'll make more than 10/hr. And the utility rates for downtown living are also MEGA inflated. It's a really insular environment where a lot of cooks got a job in a kitchen through a friend and have never worked anywhere else or with an experienced or educated chef, and genuinely don't realize how lacking their fundamental knowledge in the trade really is.

Contemporary dining in the immediate area generally flounders and dies pretty quickly. The restaurateurs expect thirsty, resilient, prodigy cooks to sacrifice all of their time for little pay, zero benefits, and no personal life because (i suspect) of the way this industry has become so romanticized through reality television, celebrity chefs, and movies. I was a lunatic about working multiple jobs, going outside my comfort zone, and finding kitchens outside of my small town where i could learn, when i was in my early 20s; as i got older, the kids i worked with in their early 20s were mostly just late to work, eager to leave, uninterested in learning, mad they couldn't take off to go to music festivals during busy seasons, and obsessed with getting culinary-inspired tattoos and "title" positions.

I own a tiny bakery where everything is made according to the standards and practices i learned in fine dining; everything is scratch and high quality; everything is made fresh and not frozen. Folks ask me all the time why i don't expand and simply hire people to teach so i didn't have to work so much and the answer is a combination of: rent is too high, the talent pool is too shallow, and we lack an audience who would consistently pay more money for better food. I've literally been name-called by customers for having the audacity to charge 50$ for a cake. If i invested in the overhead to expand the way folks think i ought to, in this particular area, i would run myself into the ground instantaneously, or at best: after the initial excitement died down.

Young people don't want to work in kitchens anymore the way they used to. It's incredibly difficult to make enough money to live, you'll NEVER escape the cycle of renting shared apartments, and the "fun" things your friends are doing with their spare time are generally inaccessible. There are days I just can't imagine what the future of dining will become. I don't know what the solutions are, because people so often demand large portions and low prices, and feel inspired to slam you on social media platforms if you fail to provide. If you want to make great food, it requires a certain minimum in labor, which requires bodies, which requires money (either for skill or in sheer volume of hours). I don't know how this industry will survive in the long run in terms of quality, independent establishments. Folks love to brag about their favorite scratch establishments, and then complain about the prices on their way out the door.
 
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I live in a very small town (college town, tourist trap) where a dumpy (and i mean DUMPY) one bedroom apartment is going to start around 800, and if you grab a line cook job here, it's very unlikely you'll make more than 10/hr. And the utility rates for downtown living are also MEGA inflated. It's a really insular environment where a lot of cooks got a job in a kitchen through a friend and have never worked anywhere else or with an experienced or educated chef, and genuinely don't realize how lacking their fundamental knowledge in the trade really is.

Contemporary dining in the immediate area generally flounders and dies pretty quickly. The restaurateurs expect thirsty, resilient, prodigy cooks to sacrifice all of their time for little pay, zero benefits, and no personal life because (i suspect) of the way this industry has become so romanticized through reality television, celebrity chefs, and movies. I was a lunatic about working multiple jobs, going outside my comfort zone, and finding kitchens outside of my small town where i could learn, when i was in my early 20s; as i got older, the kids i worked with in their early 20s were mostly just late to work, eager to leave, uninterested in learning, mad they couldn't take off to go to music festivals during busy seasons, and obsessed with getting culinary-inspired tattoos and "title" positions.

I own a tiny bakery where everything is made according to the standards and practices i learned in fine dining; everything is scratch and high quality; everything is made fresh and not frozen. Folks ask me all the time why i don't expand and simply hire people to teach so i didn't have to work so much and the answer is a combination of: rent is too high, the talent pool is too shallow, and we lack an audience who would consistently pay more money for better food. I've literally been name-called by customers for having the audacity to charge 50$ for a cake. If i invested in the overhead to expand the way folks think i ought to, in this particular area, i would run myself into the ground instantaneously, or at best: after the initial excitement died down.

Young people don't want to work in kitchens anymore the way they used to. It's incredibly difficult to make enough money to live, you'll NEVER escape the cycle of renting shared apartments, and the "fun" things your friends are doing with their spare time are generally inaccessible. There are days I just can't imagine what the future of dining will become. I don't know what the solutions are, because people so often demand large portions and low prices, and feel inspired to slam you on social media platforms if you fail to provide. If you want to make great food, it requires a certain minimum in labor, which requires bodies, which requires money (either for skill or in sheer volume of hours). I don't know how this industry will survive in the long run in terms of quality, independent establishments. Folks love to brag about their favorite scratch establishments, and then complain about the prices on their way out the door.
Exceptionally well said!
 
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Joined May 5, 2010
Thanks to all. I feel, at least, a little vindicated in my opinions. Pastrysautegirl pretty much summed it up. As sad as it is, the policies and rules should be enforced and taught by the establishment itself. Unfortunately they are not.
To Seoul Food, Foodpump, Cheflayne, fatcook, sgsvirgil, and all the rest of my fellow Chefs and cooks, thanks.
As far as eating out being a need as opposed to an electrician or plumber, more and more people are dining out, even if it's a cup of Starbucks in the morning, or grabbing a McDonalds at lunch to eat in the car. There may come a day when eating out really does become a need.
I'm still waiting for replicators.
 

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