Sicilian Pizza Pan question

Discussion in 'Pastries & Baking' started by kokopuffs, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    I plan to make a sicilian style pizza using a steel, square shaped pizza pan that's one inch deep. Should my baking stone be left in the over to heat and then place the pizza pan on top of it; or, should the stone be removed altogether?

    Here's a link to the steel pizza pan:  http://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=21561
     
  2. panini

    panini

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    Hi Kokopuffs,

      Good question.  In most shops they put the pans right in the pizza oven. I would think you would use the stone as normal,heated.

    I'm curious if this is the first time using the pan? Do you think it needs to be seasoned? What are you going to use as a release?

    flour,meal, spray?

    panini
     
  3. iceman

    iceman

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    I've worked in and even owned a pizza place. The best results we got was from using plain lard brushed into the pans. We put the pans in the oven. 
     
  4. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    @Ice:

    I assume that the pans were placed onto the stones/ceramic/refractory material that lined the oven.

    @Panini:

    Yes, the steel pan will be used for the first time and as a release it'll be brushed with olive oil and dusted with cornmeal.  Yet, I'm quite willing to try using lard with c'meal dusting as a pan release.
     
  5. iceman

    iceman

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    My ovens were just regular standard professional pizza ovens. I had/used one (my favorite) that had five 5' x 2' heavy metal shelves that revolved like a giant wheel. Another (the crummiest) that stood like a pillar with spinning shelves of some kinda stone surface (picture a four(4) layer merry-go-round). And still another that had three(3) shelves of 8" high that were 5' x 3'. Any decent pan/oven doesn't need any corn meal, unless you just like using it.  
     
  6. iceman

    iceman

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    If you think about it, anything cooked in a pan sees no real benefit for being on a stone or anything else really. Whatever is cooked in a pan has contact with that pan. Heat is heat otherwise in the oven. 
     
  7. panini

    panini

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    hmmm?

    I don't know chef. Something that requires constant high bottom heat like pizza, I'm thinking I would prefer a shelf vs a rack.

    But, I don't really know. Do I use the stone for heat or just to keep the oven clean? So you see. I should not even be in this thread

    because I don't even know why I use the stone. I thought it was for heat. maybe not.

    pan
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  8. iceman

    iceman

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    Pizza stones give you a really nice crust, in all kinds of different ways, when the crust is directly on it. I love them at home or in small ovens or particularly when having to use a professional convection oven. I'm just not sure that they help a pan crust at all. My stone stays in my home oven almost all the time. It's a nice thing to use for many different applications outside of pizza. 

    * Also, just for clarification sakes, I'm not a baker. LOL.
     
  9. panini

    panini

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    Ok Chef,

    I have some time before Church. I called a good friend in Seattle who I knew would have answers. Ex hippie, NASA engineer-burned out-fried, home chef turned science teacher for

    for kindergarteners of rich yuppies.

       I actually understood what he was explaining til we arrived at thermal dynamics etc, Bottom line is, when baking a pizza in a pan it is best to put the pan lowest closest to the heat source. Placing it on a stone will usually cook the top before the bottom. He does pizza at 550. I take his word because his favorite saying is" ask someone who knows", If  he isn't sure about something.

    You were absolutely right!

    btw I'm not a baker either:>)

    panini
     
  10. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    @IceMan and others with solid pizza making experience:

    While being quite aware of the benefits of using a thick gauged black steel pan, would I notice an appreciable difference in crust crispiness using my Chicago Metallic aluminum sheet pan that has been darkened over the years by oil/butter/grease that has baked onto the surface?

    Best,

    -T
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
  11. iceman

    iceman

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    HHHMMMMMMMM .............

    To tell you the truth, the only difference I know or have experienced is that outside of first being properly cleaned (so that no left over junky stuff causes nasty sticking), and second being properly greased (more no sticking), a pan is a pan. If I'm buying pans tomorrow, I'm not all that crazy about "Chicago Style" being that they are actually for me, too shallow, and I much prefer tall strait sides, not tapered. [A brand new pan, properly greased, will cook up a pizza just fine. You do not of course, have the "coolness factor" though. It's just a "GP" kinda thing to use a nicely seasoned pan.]

    I couldn't find a really good pic, but this I guess is close:

     [​IMG]

    Now I know this is probably a mistake, because I don't want to revisit the style of conversation like the "béchamel/lasagna thread", but I'll explain the way I learned "Chicago Pizza". "Pan" is dough, sauce on the inside, toppings, cook halfway, cheese, sprinkles (parm/romano/oregano), finish cooking. "Stuffed" is dough. toppings, some cheese, cook halfway, more cheese, sprinkles, top (sealed on edges but vented on top), cook almost done, sauce on top, more sprinkles, finish cooking. My ovens run +/- 500*. A good pan pizza takes +/- 40 min., a stuffed +/- 50 min.

    In all my years of making pizzas I can't remember more than 3 stuffed pizzas larger than 12". They weigh about 26#s and cost north of $40. 
     
  12. panini

    panini

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    How did your pizza turn out?

    Pans..not an expert.

    The pizza we make at home is nothing like regular pizza. In my bottom wall oven I have a stone that was cut from an old blodget years ago.

    I use a very thin crust but not normal toppings. When I throw it on the stone it's done in minutes. The stone absorbs any moisture and the crust will usually char in spots.

    I don't make a thickpan  pie but do similar things kinda like an Easter type bread with different fillings. I use an old 1 /'2 sheet pan.

    I have one for tonight, 1/2 sheet with pizza dough on the bottom filled with a mixture of chopped hard eggs, raw eggs, ricotto cheese, mozerella, regi., prosciutto & mortadello chunks, fresh spinache, asparagus tips,basil spice and cover with pizza dough. I cook fairly high with a hole on top to let out steam. I dust the pan with 00 it gets pretty crisp. Now we don't eat this hot it will set and we will eat at room temp. I used to bake this on the stone but this one I'm trying on the rack.

    pan

    oh I do slip it onto the stone for a few minutes when done.  I have tried a heavy guage pan but it retained too much moisture.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
  13. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    GREAT!  So much for purchasing a 12 inch black steel pizza pan for $28.  It's really nice to be aware of the versatility of plain old sheet pans.
     
  14. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Why straight sides?  And where could I get a pan like yours that ISN'T nonstick.
     
  15. iceman

    iceman

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    For me, I like the taller strait sides just for the way the pizza comes out. I think the tapered sides don't make for a nice "stand up" style pie. I've never had or used any "non-stick" pans, deep-dish or otherwise, not professionally anyway.  
     
  16. pcieluck

    pcieluck

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    Keep the stone on the bottom of the oven to get extremely hot, then bake the pizza in the pan on a rack. When the pie is almost finished, peel out onto the stone for extra crispiness.

    Quote:

    Seasoned like cast iron? steel usually doesn't, does it? or season for flavor? I like sesame at the bottom of my iron pans for flavor.
     
  17. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    @pcieluck:  'seasoned' by rubbing some kind of oil/lard/butter onto the cooking surface of the pan.  Over time the oil will glaze onto the pan just as it does onto a carbon steel skillet.  But today I made the dough free form and placed it directly onto my stone.  The results were suprisingly excellent and the dough can out medium thick and a good oven spring, if you could call it that.

    The recipe used came from the book entitled The Pizza Gourmet by Shea MacKenzie.  Some of the ingredients were chopped and seeded tomatos shich I'll roast next time, roasted bell peppers, parmesian and mozzarella cheese, black olives, Turkish/Mediterranean oregano and fennel.  All all toppings except the cheese was placed onto the dough and baked for 10 minutes prior to placing the cheeses atop the pie followed by another 10 minute bake.  But next time I think that the stone will be placed lower in the over for perhaps a crispier crust. 
     
  18. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Oh, and my baking stone decided that it would crack into two pieces.  Any recommendations on a replacement and I've heard a lot of positive things concerning Fibrament stones.
     
  19. iceman

    iceman

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    The best pizza stone I ever had was a large, unglazed adobe floor tile. I think I paid $14 for it. 
     
  20. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    The FibraMent stone I just received appears way way more massive than the previous stone I used for ten years.  Once used for a few times, I'll give an update on its performance.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2011