Short Pastry Help

Discussion in 'Pastries & Baking' started by dastardly739, Sep 5, 2015.

  1. dastardly739

    dastardly739

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    I keep having the same issue with my short pastry. When blind baking the sides overcook before the base is cooked. I used to think it was the inconsistent temperature in my gas over as it was usually under temp so had to bake for longer but have not switched to an electric oven and have the same issue. 

    The texture is fine and the pastry is still crumbly but the sides always go very dark brown before the base is cooked. 

    so i need to leave more of an overhang of pastry so the sides of the tart cases are further away from the edge of the pastry?
     
  2. chefross

    chefross

    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    418
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Do you line the dough with aluminum foil and some rice or beans to weigh it down when you blind bake?

    If not give it a try and turn the oven temperature down as well. Recipes are merely guidelines and you have to balance it (recipe) with your ovens and your timing.
     
  3. dastardly739

    dastardly739

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    I generally use scrunched up parchment paper with beans or rice as a weight. It's not that my pastry has bubbles or anything its just the side cooking way way quicker than the base. 

    I could try the foil ring around the edge i've seen mentioned elsewhere on the site, its just so frustrating when the sides are golden and cooked the base is still soggy. 
     
  4. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

    Messages:
    4,476
    Likes Received:
    417
    Exp:
    Retired Hospitality
    Are you using a glass dish?

    Convection oven?

    mimi
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  5. fablesable

    fablesable

    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    87
    Exp:
    Retired Chef
    What do you mean by this?? It is near to impossible to have a "soggy" base if you are blind baking a simple short pastry. This begs me to ask the question what is your recipe that you are using?? How "soggy" is the pastry going in?? Short pastry is a simple pastry to do with NO ADDED extra ingredients. It is a three ingredient item. So if you can clarify this statement for us I am sure we can help a little more. 

    If your dough is pulling away from the sides the key is leaving some dough overhanging from the sides of the pan. I do not cut all the extra dough off from the tart shell before baking, but leave some extra. When the tart shell bakes, the dough shrinks. This is not a problem however, as there was extra dough left in the first place. 

    Short pastry is COLD flour, COLD butter pieces into the processor, quick spin in the processor until pea sized pieces. Pour out into a bowl then add your ICE water and then quickly pull together with your hands. Do not over mix. Pat together to form a LOOSE ball. Wrap in plastic wrap, pat down to form a LOOSE disk and put into the fridge for minimum 30 mins to chill thoroughly. Pull out of fridge when chilled and roll dough to proper size needed for tart pan. Press into tart pan, dock (poke holes into base of crust with a fork evenly throughout the base of crust) and then refrigerate (I freeze it) for minimum 30 mins. before baking. This colder dough will give you more control on the pastry shrinkage. As @Chefross  has mentioned, cover the dough with a loose aluminum foil, add your weights on top of aluminum and bake first 15 mins at 350* like this. Then take aluminum and weights off and put back into oven to bake for another ~20 mins same temperature.

    When you pull the crust out of the oven and while it is still warm, take a sharp knife and cut the extra crust that you left so that the sides wouldn't shrink as much and voila!! A nice evenly baked shortcrust!! Now go fill it with the good stuff!!

    Other tips:

    Never use glass dishes. Get an oven thermometer to know the proper temp inside the oven. Do not roll or press the dough so that it is uneven.

    Not greasing your pan and using a non non-stick pan is also helpful because the dough hangs on better, so not greasing your pan is best.

    HTH /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
     
    stevenvhayden likes this.
  6. chefross

    chefross

    Messages:
    2,780
    Likes Received:
    418
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Fablesable is spot on......

    But...the one comment about rolling out the dough so that it goes beyond the rim of the pan in case of shrinkage, is something I read about all the time here on these threads, but it is not necessary.

    The shrinkage is a result of not allowing the dough to rest before placing it in the pie plate.

    The resting after also helps but it is the initial rolling out that is key. Allowing the dough to rest for as little as 2 minutes, BEFORE you place it in the pie tin. Also, I have found that brushing off excess flour after rolling has an effect on the dough as well.

    Taking the completed and panned dough right from the fridge to the oven, also helps keep the shrinkage less.

    And......finally, I must say the my clear GLASS pie plates have served me well for many many years. The glass thing is rubbish....sorry
     
  7. panini

    panini

    Messages:
    5,168
    Likes Received:
    284
    Exp:
    Owner/Operator
    I'm not sure if the OP is using a tart pan or a pie type pan. I know on pie plates shrinkage is usually a baker error. The dough is rolled out then places on the plate and most will push down in the center instead of lifting the edges up and in.  Tart tins, I personally use a snake for the sides.

    When I blind bake I always fill the pan all the way up on the sides and even press. This keeps the heat from penetrating from the inside out. 

    Also sounds like the OP needs to move the plate down in the oven.

    Of course I agree with all of the above! I just always have something to say/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif  My wife loves me for that. Maybe that's why I'm sitting here alone on a holiday weekend.LOL
     
  8. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    83
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    Baking temp????????????????

    Tart pan that you use????????????

    Blind baking????????

    Baking Temp??????????????

    Open up, D!!!!

    What's your baking method????    Temperature and at what time?????

    Do you and when do you brush the crust with slightly beaten egg white mixed with a pinch of sugar????  Hmmm.

    On this earth, baking is the toughest undertaking that you will encounter.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  9. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    83
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    For me Blind Baking is a tough number.  I'll try some of the things Panini stated.   Pressing..............into the sides or corners.
     
  10. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    83
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    "The extra crust..........", just where is the "extra crust located"????????????????    Along the sides, the vertical walls or WHAT????????, Fablesable???????
     
  11. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,227
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Extra crust is draped over the edge of the pan,,,,,,,,, on the outside.......
     
  12. fablesable

    fablesable

    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    87
    Exp:
    Retired Chef
    LMAO.....@kokopuffs  okay okay.....on a tart pan or using pastry rings I tend to leave about 1/4" more of an overhang up the sides (vertical wall) of the pans or rings after I have pressed the dough into place. This allows for me to cut away any over browned edges and the pastry looks golden and even in colour. I teach newbies in pastry to do this because they still have not mastered the chill dough therefore their short pastry tends to shrink mostly due to over-handling the pastry dough. I am a super picky person when it comes to my pastry crust edges and want them to look even and golden in colour.....not overly browned and not under-baked so this allows me to get it right every time. I learned it from one of my French mentors. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
     
  13. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    83
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    Do you, @Fablesable, cut the crust away before or after you bake it????   Do you use a fluted mold with removeable bottom or a ring mold????
     
  14. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,227
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Immediately after removing from oven. I've heard that some wait until cooled, though.

    Same method with both ring and fluted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    fablesable likes this.
  15. fablesable

    fablesable

    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    87
    Exp:
    Retired Chef
    Exactly what @BrianShaw  said .....straight outta the oven /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif  
     
  16. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    83
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    @BrianShaw and @Fablesable, how do you transfer the tart, baked in a ring mold, into the serving platter?????  I see all of these recipes using a ring mold where the entire tart is baked inside of a sheet pan with the walls turned UPWARDS?!?!?!?!?!?
     
  17. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,227
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    I use flat baking sheets.

    Or sometimes put the pastry ring on a pizza pan.
     
  18. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

    Messages:
    4,344
    Likes Received:
    83
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    ....on the underside of the pan, with the depression facing downwards so that the latter won't impede the sliding off of the baked product????????
     
  19. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,227
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    That's the way to do it with a rimmed baking pan. Baking with tart ring inside a rimmed baking pan is working too hard!

    Flat baking sheets are d'bomb. Perfectly flat except for one long side bent up at a 45 degree angle - something to grab when removing from oven and a mechanical way to keep sheet from warping under heat v

    I have rimmed baking pans but use them mostly for fish sticks and frozen French fries. Ha ha ha.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  20. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,227
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Or are you asking about the pizza pan? I'm talking about the aluminum serving tray, not like a deep- dish pizza pan (not that deep dish is even pizza........)