Shopping for xmas presents

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by theophany, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. theophany

    theophany

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    Hey!
    Tis the season to be recieving and giving.
    This time its recieving for me.

    Im looking for a few knifes. I am a home cook, but i think i want to get a little more serious about it. I have 2 nice sharpening stones a chosera 800 and 3000. I also have a piece of bassalt wood and some stropping compound. I currently have a kai wasabi chef knife and a vic paring knife. I have very soft plastic cutting boards. Not a whole lot of room in the kitchen for a butchers block board, but in the future hopefully at a new house there will be! I am not an expert sharpener yet, i am more of a beginner. I can get the knives about a 5 maybe a 6 out of 10 on a sharpness scale. Until i can get better im fine with sending them off to be sharpened. I usually use the knifes for cutting veggies, boneless meat, and fruit.

    Im looking for a nice set of steak knives probably 4.
    A chef knife
    A utility knife
    A pairing knife
    A bread knife

    I guess i could be convinced to get something else, maybe a slicer..but not sure if i NEED that right now.
    All together i have around $600 to spend all together on everything.
    Im not aure if im ready for the amount of work it takes to care for a carbon knife, but i could be convinced.

    Thanks for all the help!
     
  2. benuser

    benuser

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    The Kai Wasabi are probably the worst blades to start with. Very abrasion resistant due to huge carbides who hinder in getting a fine edge.

    Sharpening is about raising a burr, chasing it, and getting rid of it. Don't try with a Wasabi. It's by far the easiest and most obvious with a simple carbon steel.

    Get at least ONE basic carbon steel blade instead to learn. No set. In Europe I would suggest a simple Robert Herder or a K-Sabatier. From Americans I understand that Old Hickory offers the same kind of simple carbons.
    A few Japanese have better steel, and sharpen almost as easily: Misono Swedish Carbon, Masahiro Virgin Carbon.
     
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  3. theophany

    theophany

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    I think there is a sight where i can order a k sabatier. And im not planning on buying a set. Im looking ti get all of these seperately.
     
  4. rick alan

    rick alan

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    Are you in Europe or America?
     
  5. theophany

    theophany

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    Usa
     
  6. theophany

    theophany

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    Usa, but cant you buy sab's from thebestthings?

    Im not too worried about getting a k specifically, I have heard about that website. But dont know many speckfkcs about the different types of sabs.
     
  7. benuser

    benuser

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  8. theophany

    theophany

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    Besides recommending a sab, anything else? Should I just go for A paring, and chef's knife from there? You mentioned in your post that I should get ONE of them. Also, are all of the ones on that website carbon or just the ones that are labeled authentic carbon?
     
  9. benuser

    benuser

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    Only the ones mentioned as carbon are ... carbons. Others are stainless and this type of stainless is rather to be avoided. Difficult sharpening. My own preferred combination is a 9 or 10" / 240-250mm carbon chef, a stainless 6" / 150mm petty and a very basic carbon peeler. One stainless at least for citrus e.a. that will rapidly dull a carbon edge. One carbon at least for learning sharpening. Great petties with JCK, japanesechefsknife.com
    Fujiwara FKM and Misono Moly or 440, depending on your budget. You can't go wrong with these.
     
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  10. theophany

    theophany

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    any brands that you recommend for the stainless 6" , and stainless for citrus, and when you say a carbon for learning do you mean to get an extra carbon to learn starting out? Also are the grinds on those knives that you linked really nice? Or will I have to set the grind myself?

    Also what type of stainless steel should I be looking for. There are so many kinds, which are going to last a lifetime etc etc.

    Also my budget is around $600

    Also I just realized is it okay to sharpen a CS knife on a splashstone like the choseras?

    You also mentioned that the Japanese versions have better steel what do you mean by that? And what kind of impact will that have on the knifes??
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  11. benuser

    benuser

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    What I described, one carbon chef's, one stainless petty, a peeler, is a minimum. I wouldn't buy an expensive blade if your only learning sharpening. Better wait a bit and explore your preferences. K-Sabatier come with great grinding and poor final sharpening. Very common. Good for your sharpening.
    Or have a Misono Swedish Carbon gyuto and ask Korin for an initial stone sharpening. So you get an example of a correctly sharpened edge which will make maintaining much easier.
    A petty -- the 6" blade -- gets a lot of abuse, has a lot of board contact with a small contact area, will often been sharpened. No eternal life here.
    Don't pay too much, it will replaced within a few years.
    You may sharpen carbon steel with any stone. The Choseras are anyway amongst the best synthetic stones, and an excellent choice.
     
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  12. theophany

    theophany

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    What do you mean by great grinding and poor final sharpening. Do you mean they are thin and in the right shape but the actual edge isn't sharp?
    I also have been doing a lot of reading and a lot of people talk about how misono's reptutation is bad fit and finish. Will that impact me at all as a beginner sharpener?
     
  13. benuser

    benuser

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    The 'better' Japanese steel was a sloppy expression. The harder Japanese carbon steel allows a finer geometry and a finer edge. Better performance, sure, but more vulnerable, asking some caution at use and an attentive maintenance.
    Nothing wrong with European carbon steel, but most makers keep it soft, by tradition. Less demanding.

    Very different with stainless steels. The Japanese have developed great stainless types, while in Europe no real development has taken place. Looking great, but poor cutters, and no fun to sharpen.
     
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  14. benuser

    benuser

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    K-Sabs have a great grinding of the faces. The final edge is generally poor, just as with most factory edges. They all need a bit of work -- or love, if you prefer.

    Never found anyone complaining about Misono's Fit&Finish. It is an example of a very high, consistent level through all their series and an excellent quality control. Are you sure you aren't referring to Masamoto, well-known for its inconsistency??
     
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  15. theophany

    theophany

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    I probably am, sorry!!
    So here is what I'm considering atm.
    Chef--9in sab from the website you linked. OR the 270mm misono from korin with an intial sharpening.
    Petty-- I'm thinking the misono 440 150mm
    Carbon Peeler--Thinking one of the Sab's because I haven't really found anything else besides that. What is the difference between the types of peelers/ paring knifes? Should I try both the straight and curved ones?
    Citrus knife-- I have no clue for this one, but somehow I would like the handle to be different so that people know to use this one for citrus items.

    Any recommendations for a santoku ? My wife enjoys using them, She would most definitely prefer a stainless steel. I would maintain it.

    Also, I understand that this is all intro/beginning level. And will work for however long I choose. But what would you recommend for being like a end game knife? Also what would you recommend getting for being a more rugged/workhorse knife if I were to cook anything with bones and things along those lines, or cutting pineapple etc.
     
  16. benuser

    benuser

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    The 150 petty is what I meant for citrus. No normal chef's knife should ever touch a bone. If it happens though, let it be with a soft carbon. Less damage and easier repair. A pineapple should be no problem to any chef's knife that has been properly sharpened, i.e. with an edge that can deal with some work.
    Peelers can be straight or curved, short or longer, middle-tip, low-tip, high-tip. Find out what you like. I prefer the carbon ones by Robert Herder, Solingen, Germany. They cost about $10. Not sure they are available in the States.

    Misono makes some great Santokus, 440 and UX-10. I've sharpened quite a few of them, and the aren't overly flat and have a good tip.

    Where this story will end? The Misono is a bit middle of the road, and a good introduction. Perhaps you will want to try some day a very thin blade, with a Japanese handle. Or a heavier blade with a very advanced stainless steel. Or a different profile, with more belly and a higher tip. Up to you.
     
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  17. theophany

    theophany

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    If the Misono is a bit middle of the road, what is a knife you could recommend that is solidly middle of the road, and possibly middle high as well to compare. What is the difference between 440 and ux-10, besides the price... Not sure if I can find the Robert Herder stuff here. Anything comparable for the US? Also, do you have any recommendations for steak knives? Or bread knives?

    I found the Old Hickory line, they sell some stuff on amazon and various other websites. Do you think they are good knifes? Their paring knife is about $10. And Slicer is about $10 as well. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  18. scott livesey

    scott livesey

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    Robert Herder has a store on Amazon. for steak knives, find a set that matches your tableware or theme. you can find nice sets of old stuff on eBay. go serrated, the blades are going to be used on china or glassware which will destroy a regular edge.
    Old Hickory are basic carbon steel blades made in New York. a bit softer than Japanese knives, they can be quickly made razor sharp. I have several in the kitchen that were passed down from wife's grandmother. I use them on occasion to break down large cuts of meat, like a 10 pound pork butt. I have used their cleaver as my main kitchen knife.
    Case makes decent kitchen knives, same outfit that makes the pocket knives.
    for a bread knife, get a basic serrated on that has the right amount of flex for you.
    on all knives for your kitchen, find something that fits your hand well and has balance that works for you.
    check here http://stores.ebay.com/ralph1396?_rdc=1
     
  19. rick alan

    rick alan

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    Going back, the problem with the sab is the full bolster, it's a pain as it had to be ground back to facilitate sharpening. Crazy that they still do that, this was originally just to facilitate 1800's die forging practices, then became a fashion, unfortunately.

    Old Hickory's are made of fine steel, and I believe are significantly harder than the Misono carbon. But the edges are very thick, good for a butcher knife, not so great for a chefs, and will require more effort to sharpen.

    Steel on the UX10 will have better edge retention, but be a little more effort to sharpen. The Misono carbon will be real easy to sharpen and touch up, certainly amongst the easiest to get real sharp.

    There are quite a few knives in your price range, check out recent posts.

    Ebay has a huge variety of inexpensive steak knives, just pick out something you like. There are some real fancy looking ones sporting big names and selling real cheap, just be aware these are going to be Chinese knockoffs.
     
  20. theophany

    theophany

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    What would you say to getting both the sab and the misono? I get that the carbon is much easier to sharpen and touch up than the UX10, but what is the difference between the ux10, the Moly, and the 440 Moly? Also do you have any cutting board recommendations? Are specific woods better than others? End grain vs side grain? Or the Hi-Soft one that you mentioned?

    Also any recommendations for a petty that has a more traditional Japanese WA, That means with the more octagonal handle of wood correct? Just want to get a feel for one of those if possible, so I know for the future if I like them or not. So it would be 150mm, stainless steel based off what we already discussed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017