Sharpening Troubles

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by kedarshenoy, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. kedarshenoy

    kedarshenoy

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    I recently got my first waterstones. I have a suehiro rika 1200 and a suehiro rika 6000. I tried to sharpen up an old shun classic 10 inch that I had laying around and I was able to get a nice mirror polish on the bevel using the stones but the knife itself was not sharp. I also had a very hard time creating a burr. Could my troubles be due to the fact that I may have had my angle to steep and was really thinning the knife? Im just really puzzled by this and if anyone could offer me some advice it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  2. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Try going shallower and stop before you think it's sharp.  Move to a finer stone and do the same but maybe perhaps at a slightly steeper angle and stop before you think it's sharp.
     
  3. kedarshenoy

    kedarshenoy

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    Okay Ill try that. what about the lack of burr formation
     
  4. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Sometimes the hand might be too wet to sense the burr or sharped edge formation.  Just step back and it's better to underhone than overhone.
     
  5. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Allow your hands to dry.  Then finally draw the edge thru some cardboard held vertically, feel the edge before and after the draw.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  6. kedarshenoy

    kedarshenoy

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    Awesome ill try that and let you know how it works out.
     
  7. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    At least that's what I had to do with my oilstones including my black, surgical one from Hall's.  Be patient and allow your hands to dry a bit before evaluating.
     
  8. jbroida

    jbroida

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  9. kedarshenoy

    kedarshenoy

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    Thanks Jon! Ill check these out
     
  10. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    If you want to know if your angle is too acute or too obtuse, use the MAGIC MARKER TRICK.  It's the beginner's best friend. 

    If you can't get everything you know from Jon's video, I'll fill it out for you.  Chip Ward also does a good job of explaining the hows, whys and wherefores. 

    Feeling for a burr should be as easily accomplished with wet or dry hands.  But you need to knowing how to feel (thumb push, thumb drag, etc. ), and knowing what a burr feels like. 

    If you've drawn a burr, chased the burr, and deburred, you have a sharp edge.  Without fail.  The process of chasing the burr makes for a very thin cross section at the point where the burr breaks off when the knife deburrs; and

    THIN = SHARP

    If you're not getting a sharp edge, you're not going through the sequence properly. 

    At a guess your angles are too acute, you're not actually sharpening all the way down to the edge, and not drawing an actual wire.   

    Important enough to repeat:
    • Use the magic marker trick as a way of seeing what's going on.  It will save you hours of heartache;
    • Draw the burr; Chase the burr until it flips with every stroke; and Deburr; and since the frikkin' burr is so frikkin' important
    • Learn to feel the burr. 
    BDL
     
  11. kedarshenoy

    kedarshenoy

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    Thanks BDL. I have used the sharpie trick and it has helped, but I think your also right in the fact that I wasnt going long enough on the stone to even properly draw a burr.

    I also have another question. On my knives (tojiro and yoshihiro brand) they both claim to be 50/50 grind on their edges yet I clearly see that the right side bevel is larger that the left side. How does one go about sharpening this and why do the edges appear to look this way. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
     
  12. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    When many makers supply numbers representing factory symmetry, they're talking about what they'd like it to be rather than how their knives actually ship.   Most factory edge grinding is quick, cheap and sloppy. 

    If you're a home sharpener sharpening on bench stones, sharpen using "the burr method," and habitually start with one side of your knives, your knives will quickly develop 2:1 (60/40 - 70/30) asymmetry biased toward that side.  So, if your a "burr method sharpener" (excellent for beginners, and as effective as anything else for expert), you have to make a conscious effort to control symmetry.

    Sharpening always presents a tension between sharpness and durability.  Everything else being equal, you'll feel more "perceived sharpness" with an asymmetric edge than with a symmetric edge; but symmetric edges tend to be more durable and more suitable for maintaining on a steel than asymmetric edges.  

    For most knives sharpened on both sides, a 2:1 asymmetry is as good a compromise as your likely to get. 

    BDL