Searching a 50/50 bevel Sujihiki

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by jcnvieira, Aug 5, 2014.

  1. jcnvieira

    jcnvieira

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    Line Cook
    Hello everyone,

    I am a line cook seaching for my first sujihiki.

    I already have asked for advice when getting my petty and everyone had very usefull advices, at the time i was working at Boston.

    Now i am back home (Portugal) so i will need a website that sells overseas.

    I work as a line cook in a small brigade so i do all kind of prep and service: vegetables, meat, fish.

    My actual knife set:

    - geshin uraku 150mm petty;
    - global 180mm deba
    - gesshin ginga gyuto 270mm
    - global 240mm flexible fillet knife
    - mac superior 270mm bread knife.

    I am lefty so a 50/50 bevel is a most.
    In my knife kit i miss a slicer that i can use for portion meat and specially fish and any cooked protein, a extra would be if i also use it to replace my fillet flexible knife that i only use to skin fish .

    What would be your advices? My thought would go to a western handle, 50/50 bevel, 270mm or 300mm at a limit of 350 USD.

    Thanks for your advices.

    Best regards from Azores Islands,
    joel vieira
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  2. benuser

    benuser

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    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  3. mike9

    mike9

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    I just checked a vintage carbon American slicer blade I'm about to rehandle today and it has an asymmetric grind to it.  Convex on one side and concave on the other.
     
  4. benuser

    benuser

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    Make sure what we mean by asymmetric. Almost all Japanese knives have their edge off-centered. Almost all good knives in the world have different grindings on both faces. A strictly symmetric blade would wedge terribly. Even European blades have the left face flatter than the more or less convexed right one, but it's less pronounced than with a lot of Japanese blades. With the Europeans the edge is well-centered to make the knife usable by both right- and left-handed without steering.
     
  5. jcnvieira

    jcnvieira

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    Thank you guys for the advices.

    Benuser, do you now anyhing about the blades of the brand that you suggested?

    I am asking because i have a Portuguese brand "icel knives" that are cheap, good fit and finish and a good profile and are 56Hrc.
     
  6. benuser

    benuser

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    Well, the modern TI have a better F&F than the vintage TI Nogent, whose is quite terrible. T'as bu ou quoi, wrote BDL. Nothing you can't solve with a strip of sandpaper, though. As for the "Invisible Edge" home brand, they seem absolutely identical to the TI Sabatier, but I will report as soon as I got a carver from them which is underway.
    Expect a modern TI even if the F&F is not bad to have a poor edge. Just as with a lot of Japanese brands.
    As for the hardness, that won't be terrible. BDL seemed to believe the vintages were a tad harder, but I don't think so. The old carbons vary a lot both in hardness and composition. In the best cases, the "impurities" that are eliminated today give the vintages their character, but make them from time to time slightly harder to sharpen. Think unexpected carbides -- in a unalloyed steel!
    Soft carbons aren't a problem if you know how to deal with them. I put a single huge micro-bevel on them and can maintain them with leather + Cr2O3, newspaper, or a 8k stone.
     
  7. benuser

    benuser

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    As for the Icel, they have good stuff, they make the home brand of a very reputable firm in Amsterdam, but only soft German stainless as far as I know.
     
  8. jcnvieira

    jcnvieira

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    Thanks benuser,

    As for the icel i am portuguese so i grew up seeing and trying their products.

    To give an idea, they are making some of the knives for victorinox. As an idea, in january i bought a victorinox ouster knife and it was made at... Portugal.

    But they only do stainless steel knives.

    I talked about Icel because it's a term of comparison; i would like something more high end.
     
  9. braising cows

    braising cows

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    I've got a single bevel left handed 270 mm misono sujihiki that I actually found on eBay for $100, I think the price on chefknivestogo was $200 new so if Mark has the left handed one or can get it that would put you in the ballpark.
     
  10. benuser

    benuser

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    Left-handed versions (left face convex with kanji/logo/dragon, right face flat, edge off-centered to the right) are on special order, expect a 25-30% premium. Better ask Mr Iwahara, [email protected]
     
  11. jcnvieira

    jcnvieira

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    Thanks Benuser,

    A few hours ago i sent a email to Mr Iwahara.

    I also sent a email (and i'm waiting for the answer) to J.Broda of Jck and i'm going to email Mark Richmond of Chef Knives to go.

    Right now, after reading a lot, there are a few knives that caught my interest:

    - misono swedish steel, left version
    - richmond artifex
    - geshin ginga
    - mac mighty slicer

    The misono has a lot of fans;
    the ritchmond looks like a huge bang for the money;
    i already have a (gyuto) ginga and i love the stell: very easy to sharp and good edge retention.
    Excelent feedback from the mac users and i have a great impression from my macc superior bread knife.

    Any ideas/opinions? :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  12. benuser

    benuser

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    The Artifex is a project knife. You will have to do a lot of thinning to have it perform.

    http://s19.postimg.org/nd2ucaxlv/Artifex_Before1.jpg

    I like a lot the Fujiwara FKH. Just as righ-biased as the Misono. The steel has a coarser grain but that's no problem with a slicer, I would think.
     
  13. jcnvieira

    jcnvieira

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    Uhm, i don't want a knife that needs to do thinning. I had miss that point on the artifex.
    Because of that i take the artifex from my list.

    I had received an answer from Mr iwahara. he says that a left hand sujihiki is 15% plus regular price, i don't think it is expensive:

    Left Handed Version
    Misono Sweden Steel Series No.122 Sujihiki 270mm $232
    Misono Sween Steel Series No.123 Sujihiki 300mm $276
    Free Shipping Service

    I have now 3 doubts:
    1. The way to sharp a 30/70 is hard?
    2. I have read that this knife is very reactive. Just wipeout after cleaning is enough to keep the rust away?
    3. What lenght is more versatile: 270mm or 300mm?

    Best regards.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  14. benuser

    benuser

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    Stop counting strokes and
    flipping sides continuously.
    Start somewhere behind the
    edge with the blade almost
    flat on the stone, raise the
    spine little by little and so
    approaching the very edge,
    until you raised a bur and
    switch to the other side.
    You may verify your
    progress with the marker
    trick or by looking at the
    scratch pattern or patina. With this approach you rebuild every
    configuration without
    having to worry about
    angles and proportions. And
    if you want numbers:
    Reasonable values for the
    very edge are between 10
    and 15 degree left, 15 and
    22 degree right. Please note that the Misonos come OOTB with a nice polished but overly convexed edge.
    The Misono Swedish Carbon is reactive. Dabbing with hot vinegar or coffee after degreasing with alcohol will make the patina building to start. Remove immediately the acid from the very edge. Wait a quarter of an hour and rinse with the hottest water. After that, wash with soap to neutralize. With a slicer, patina will form rather quickly after use with raw or cooked meat.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
  15. jcnvieira

    jcnvieira

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    Thank you Benuser.


    I am lefty,

    After read a lot of opinions (also in another foruns) and, some people says that the 70/30 configuration don't gonna be bad for me and that the knife don.t gonna drift; some peoplle say the opossite

    What are yours opinions?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  16. benuser

    benuser

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    Some salesmen and their affiliates don't hesitate recommending a strongly right-biased blade to a left-handed. Expect it to steer like crazy after a few sharpenings and to have a poor food release from the very beginning. Get a 30/70 instead.
     
  17. jcnvieira

    jcnvieira

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    Thank you for your opinion! ;)
     
  18. benuser

    benuser

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    You're most welcome, Joel.
     
  19. benuser

    benuser

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    Just received a Yatagan carving knife, made by Thiers-Issard for

    http://
    www.theinvisibleedge.co.uk/
    page76.html#Cook’s

    Very impressed by the level of F&F at this price point. No sharp spine or fingerguard, rivets flush with the scales. As always the sharpener was drunk, but that's just a part of the joy if you've got a new knife.
     
  20. benuser

    benuser

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    [​IMG]

    The carving knife here with a NOS Nogent 10" slicer by Thiers-Issard
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014