Parmentier

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by ziggy, Apr 26, 2002.

  1. ziggy

    ziggy

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    Does anyone recognize this as a knife cut? I've always thought Parmentier referred to a potatoes in a dish.

    The competition I'm preparing for includes a knife skills exam. Looking at last year's competencies, participants were asked to demonstrate about 8 different cuts...all of which I recognize except Parmentier. I've looked high and low and can't find this. The chefs at school confess to being stumped as well...

    anybody have any idea?
     
  2. cape chef

    cape chef

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    Hi Ziggy,

    I may be wrong here, but I have to agree with you about parmentier being dishes prepared with potatoes,
    I mean, it was Antione Parmentier whom wrote many things about food (not the least potatoes) in France, and made potatoes popular in France, so these dishes carry his name.

    In my years in classic french kitchens, parmentier was always associated with a particular dish containing potatoes, and not a knife cut.

    I don't know if this helps, or confuses you more :)
    If this cut is included in your practicum, please share with us what it is
    cc
     
  3. ziggy

    ziggy

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    Yes, cape chef, you're thinking just like we've been....which is why we're all completely stumped. None of my chefs have heard of this in any kitchen or training they've been in or had - here or in Europe.

    For sure, if I figure this out, I"ll let you know...

    In the meantime maybe someone out there knows this seemingly obscure tidbit?? :crazy:
     
  4. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    I have to agree with CC. Parmentier from what I gather is a dish made or garnished with potatoes.

    I went through my list of basic knife cuts and the only cut that starts with a "P" is Paysanne. Ive never heard of a knife cut named Parmentier. Maybe they were kidding?? :eek:

    Jodi
     
  5. cape chef

    cape chef

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    Dear Shawntycat,

    It seems that to agree with me made you sad.
    This gives me pause,

    Regardless, perhapes the teachers have quoted the wrong knife skill
     
  6. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    I'm shaking my head over here.

    Im not sad to agree with you CC. :) Im sad that I couldn't offer more help to Ziggy about this. I think it might be a typo or a mistake on the part of whomever is giving the knife skills exam.

    Jodi :D
     
  7. ziggy

    ziggy

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    hmmm....well....what i'm looking at is last year's exam. This competition is national with each state sending an entrant....i suppose it's possible there was an error but that would have come out at some point last year i think during the competition itself and the scoring....(paysanne was also called for so i don't think there was confusion with that)

    i dunno....hopefully there's nothing this obscure this year....
     
  8. marmalady

    marmalady

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    Could it possibly be the cut of potato that is used in the dish? Is there anything special about how the potatoes are cut/prepared for a parmentier?
     
  9. marmalady

    marmalady

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  10. ziggy

    ziggy

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    TOO COOL! Marmalady, You're AWESOME!:bounce:

    Thanks for finding that(where ever did you find it??) If one of those other more obscure cuts shows up on this year's competencies I'll be so grateful to you! Haven't heard of most of them on that page...

    So whad'ya think looking at hthat pic? Parmentier is medium dice??

    Thanks again, SO MUCH! :D
     
  11. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    Well, I guess you learn something new everyday! Thank you Marm & Ziggy! :D :bounce:

    Jodi
     
  12. cape chef

    cape chef

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    Dear Marmalady,

    This is a very interesting site you found on the internet, but it can be a bit decieving. I will try to explain without being to confusing or anal ;)

    Take for example these potatoes they highlight.

    Pont-neuf
    Fondant
    Chateau
    Boiled.

    These are not "cuts" They are methods of preparation, the cut is borrowed from "tourne"

    Rissole, Maxim, parmentier again, are not classic cuts, Example "Rissole" potatoes really refere to potatoes that have been fried, and parmentier is used with many potato dishes because of Antione-augustine-parmentier.

    These cuts on the web site are variations on dices and bruinoise.

    Also the Mignonette cut on the page has nothing to do with what a mignonette is, it is a type of Medallion from beef, veal what have you. and cocotte of course is a casserole.

    These cuts on this site you may see associated with particular potato dishes, but they are not true classic cuts.

    even Paysanne, which was mentioned before me by shawnycat in not a true cut (although almost always a dice) is really "peasant style" and usaully has bacon, carrots and potatoes.

    I'm not trying to delate anyone here at all, I just think it is very important if you are not sure of something to totally trust an internet site.

    I really enjoyed reading the Tallyrand page, but it could be a touch misleading.
    So know, have I totally confused you?
    cc
     
  13. marmalady

    marmalady

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    Thanks for the clear up, CC - I didn't think it was a classical cut, but knowing what sly little devils examiners can be, started thinking along the lines of, okay, it's a potato dish - can it be a certain way the potatoes are prepared for this dish? So I just did a search, first on 'Parmentier', and got a lot of people with that name, then narrowed the search to "parmentier potatoes" and the site opened right up.

    Could it be one of those obscure references, where the meaning of the word has changed to become the cut of the potato rather than the dish? I do seem to remember a French banquet chef I worked for, who used that word to describe the cut he wanted.

    Zig, I haven't a clue as to how big the cuts are - I am most definitely going to defer to CC here!!!
     
  14. kimmie

    kimmie

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    Argh! This had been puzzling me all day and thanks for solving this, Marm! Here's the pic you wanted to display:

    [​IMG]

    Although they sure look like a homefry cut to me, it certainly isn't the name of a "knife cut" !
     
  15. greg

    greg

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    Thought I'd add to the confusion here. I just looked up potato and vegetable cuts in my Johnson & Wales textbook (1992 edition); I found parmentier listed there as it appears on the web page marmalady provided. One caveat: even the chef-instructors at J&W will tell you there are mistakes in the textbook. So, if CC didn't confuse everyone enough, hopefully I've finished the job and further un-clarified the matter
     
  16. ziggy

    ziggy

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    thanks for all the input everyone! for what it's worth...i certainly don't disagree with any of you that this isn't a classical cut. But if they ask me to show any of these well...then it's good information to have classical cut or not, right? :lol: I figure these are things that a lot of people may not know, so being a bit competetive ( :D ) the more info i have to pull from the better....

    Again, many thanks for all the efforts from all of you!!!!!!!
     
  17. suzanne

    suzanne

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    According to the CIA's New Professional Chef, paysanne IS a basic cut: kind of a skinny dice, 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/8.
     
  18. cape chef

    cape chef

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    No need not to say your sorry to me "ever";)

    The imformation here is wonderful and genuine.
    Being trained in classical French cuisine, my stance is a little differnt then perhaps the CIAs or other books and sourses.

    You see to me Paysanne, will always apply to the way the vegetables are cooked and served in the style of the peasant.

    The cut you refere to is most assoiciated with paysanne, as is the cut with parmentier, but I guess my quandry (sp) is that the true meaning of these words are being changed and diluted to fit a schools sylibis for study.
    To me they are all Pomme du terres anyway, with there unigue applications.
    I think Ziggy, if you follow the info here in regards to you question on Parmentier you will do fabulous :)

    May I suggest though Ziggy, when you have some free time, try to find some older classic French cook/reference books and study these things, you will find an incredible wealth of imformation and documented history behind these things we are discussion.

    Please let us know how things evolve for you!
    cc
     
  19. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    Suzanne, sorry, but I have to agree with Cape Chef. Paysanne is a method of preparation, not a cut, at least according to classic French cuisine. One of the downfalls (or joys, depending on how you look at it) in American cuisine is that we are not really tied to traditional definitions. Look at the word confit and how it is used. We have had numerous discussions on this subject here. Americans tend to bastardize words to create new meanings, only remotely resembling the original.

    Paysanne (according to LaRousse, 1960 English translation 1977)
    -method of preparing butcher's meat and poultry, usually braised and accompanied by a garnish of carrots, turnips, onions and celery sliced and lightly cooked in butter, pieces of scalded and fried lean bacon, and potatoes cut down to a uniform small size.
     
  20. marmalady

    marmalady

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    CC & Pete, and Ziggy, and Suzanne, and everyone -

    Okay - two different issues here;

    1) The term parmentier as it is defined in classic French cuisine, in the ways that CC and Pete have presented it.

    2) The term parmentier as it seems to be defined by Ziggy's examiners for the competition, and as the term has apparently 'evolved' in French/American cuisine.

    Zig, I think if you go to the competition knowing in your little heart of hearts what it TRULY is, but then ace your exam with doing the cut the examiners want to see, you will have learned not one, but two new bits of culinary wisdom!!!!

    Don't want to start the 'evolution of food terms' here again, and you guys are absolutely correct in the historical definition of the word; but - 'fess up now - how many of you have put juuuust a touch of something like, oh, say soy sauce, in a gravy - or a vinaigrette - or even a meat loaf. Historically correct application of soy sauce no! Delicious - yes!