Organic vs Conventional

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by chefhow, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. chefhow

    chefhow

    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    12
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
  2. chefedb

    chefedb

    Messages:
    5,516
    Likes Received:
    174
    Exp:
    Retired Chef
    Just read in this past weekends paper. There is no proof whatsoever that organic food is healthier. In fact sometime when food is not treated the bacteria level in some  is higher then unorganic foods. I always thought it was BS. When I was younger I summered in a camp farm in Jersey Our farrm used pestisides farm next door did not  wind and rain took everything all over.
     
  3. chefhow

    chefhow

    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    12
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    I found the part that said Organic produce isnt pesticide free very satisfying personally.  I have said for YEARS that it is 100% impossible to grow foods that are pesticide free. Water tables, wind, birds, bugs...they all carry the pesticides with them from farm to farm.
     
  4. maryb

    maryb

    Messages:
    2,460
    Likes Received:
    151
    Exp:
    Semi pro/retired now
    Look at the sources deep behind the study and you will find Monsanto and the other big GMO seed companies. The study is worthless.
     
  5. french fries

    french fries

    Messages:
    5,170
    Likes Received:
    302
    Exp:
    At home cook
    So if the organic food contains the same quantity of pesticides as the conventional food, what's the point of using pesticides? One should just buy a farm next to a conventional farm and not worry about pesticides at all, they'd save money. 

    I say that's BS. Maybe organic have some degree of pesticides (or we should say some organic have some degree of pesticides) but not all, and not the same amount. 
     
  6. gonefishin

    gonefishin

    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    28
    Exp:
    At home cook
       I think its a mistake to reference an article that doesn't give you the entire view of the study its referencing.  You're relying on the interpretation from the writer, and the integrity of the writer to gain your opinion.  I originally started down this line of thinking when I found out more information about the two main studies that referenced nitrates.  The original article written made reference to problems when infants consumed nitrate rich water, another was when rats consumed large amounts of nitrate through ingestion.  This original article was referenced and referenced throughout a few decades.  Soon, articles were written referencing this original article...which almost gave the illusion that the original article had become the study itself.  After much looking, I had finally found some of the papers from the actual studies.  The original article left out some very key parts to each of the outcomes that they referenced that really would have framed things differently.  

       We should use common sense and grow our own vegetables in the best soil we can provide.  Then, supplement with the most natural means of fertilizer and natural pesticides we can start with.  If we still have problems that are effecting our plant/production...we should escalate only one step, more aggressive, at a time.  Just my thoughts 

    Dan
     
  7. chefhow

    chefhow

    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    12
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    Monsonato, REALLY?  So Stanford University is BS?  I would like for you to tell that to the American Annals Of Internal Medicine and the Stanford School of Medicine please. 

    Its sad that people just wont accept the fact that produce, no matter what means is used to gow it, is good for you.  Spending 30+% more doesnt make it healthier or better for you.  They all have pesticides, they all have nutrientsm they all have vitamins and one charges far more than the other because people like to follow a trend.  The trend should be to eat a diet that includes fresh fruits and veggies, not to preach about how conventional growing methods arent good enough or are going to kill you.  Its being proven to not be true.

    The reason most people who live on a diet of boxed meals and convenience foods do is because everything else is over priced and out of their budget.  Food prices are going to spike and increase on an average of 20% over the next 12 months with the exploding populations, exploding transportation costs and dry conditions.  
     
  8. french fries

    french fries

    Messages:
    5,170
    Likes Received:
    302
    Exp:
    At home cook
    I haven't read the article. I was commenting on your post, and your post only. Reading your post again, I realize I was wrong to call BS. I must have read more into it than there really was. I guess this is a topic that's close to my heart... sorry about that chefhow. 
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  9. french fries

    french fries

    Messages:
    5,170
    Likes Received:
    302
    Exp:
    At home cook
    I read the article now. I see that the following statement supports what I was trying to point out: 
     
  10. chefedb

    chefedb

    Messages:
    5,516
    Likes Received:
    174
    Exp:
    Retired Chef
    And the source behind how good it is is WHOLE FOODS  which makes a fortune on the consumer.
     
  11. french fries

    french fries

    Messages:
    5,170
    Likes Received:
    302
    Exp:
    At home cook
    There's another aspect to organic agriculture that everyone seems to skip in most discussions I've seen here: the general impact of pesticides not just on the produce that's being grown, but also on our environment, on soil, on groundwater, on animals, etc.... - and the general pollution pesticides create. 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming_and_biodiversity
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  12. kippers

    kippers

    Messages:
    181
    Likes Received:
    15
    Exp:
    Home Cook
  13. chefedb

    chefedb

    Messages:
    5,516
    Likes Received:
    174
    Exp:
    Retired Chef
    In order to treat cattle for forms of hoof disease and some forms of dermititus, Vets conclude and prescribe antibiotics. This in many cases it the only thing that works,( as in domestic cats and dogs) Not to treat in most cases means putting animal down for something that could be cured. This to me is stupid and inhumane. However once treated with the medication the animal is no longer Certified  Organic in nature. Sorry I would rather it not be sick or die and be able to use the cow to feed the worlds hungry then destroy it  for the sake of being able to call it organic who's values have yet to be proven. To me the whole thing is mass hype and BS
     
    chefhow likes this.
  14. chefhow

    chefhow

    Messages:
    843
    Likes Received:
    12
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    So everyone knows, this study was paid for 100% SOLEY by Stanford University.  It was conducted by 2 Dr's, one of which is a practicing physician and was asked by her patients if it was beneficial to go to an organic diet vs a conventionally grown diet.  This isnt about the environmental impact of pesticides, or what kinds of pesticides to use(Organic farmers ARE ALLOWED TO USE PESTICIDES AND ARE EXPECTED TO IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN HEALTHY CROPS) its about the nutrtional value or Organic vs Conventional diets. 
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  15. koukouvagia

    koukouvagia

    Messages:
    7,279
    Likes Received:
    531
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    Whatever the conclusion of this study is, it will not impact my decision to buy organic vs. conventional.  When I first came to America 25yrs ago the state of nutrition was dire.  Everything was boxed, canned and frozen.  Everyone at school ate white bread sandwiches and chips every day, fast food or buffets for dinner.  Now I see people wanting to try better things, healthier things, Americans are now eating more raw food than ever before.  The desire to buy organic reflects that healthy outlook on food, it reflects the need of individuals to have more control over the things they eat and a desire to learn where their food comes from.  Many of us have made the decision to spend a little more money and get better food.  I have a toddler, I'm not putzing around with conventional milk or eggs or berries.  Ok so truth be told I cannot afford tomatoes from the farmers' market and so I don't buy them.  But the difference in taste is obvious and I don't need a study to tell me that there is no difference.

    It is true that pesticides are carried from farm to farm through insects, weather and water.  Even more reason to continue to strive for organic, for the more organic farms there are the less these problems will persist, the less insects will contaminate.  For those of us who live in cities and don't have gardens, organic produce can be a small way for us to connect with something alive and green.  I don't consider conventional food to be poisonous, so I fail to see how organic food can anger someone so much.  I choose not to buy Louboutin shoes, but don't judge me for buying organic onions.
     
  16. koukouvagia

    koukouvagia

    Messages:
    7,279
    Likes Received:
    531
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    What does conventional mean anyway?  Do you mean tomatoes that have been shipped to the US in February from Chile that have been picked weeks before they are ripe, shipped in loads and then sprayed to make them turn red on the produce stand at WalMart?  Is this what we are fighting to keep?
     
  17. willbkool

    willbkool

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Culinary Student

    This chart shows which foods are better to use organic versus non-organic. Although cantaloupe and honeydew are in different columns for some reason. And I would think that broccoli would suck up pesticides like a mop. But who knows? There are certified organic pesticides like rotenone and pyrethrin, but I bought some of those and the label said to wear a mask and gloves while using them.  So much for being healthier.
     
  18. koukouvagia

    koukouvagia

    Messages:
    7,279
    Likes Received:
    531
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    WillBkool, please list your source.
     
  19. willbkool

    willbkool

    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Culinary Student
  20. chefedb

    chefedb

    Messages:
    5,516
    Likes Received:
    174
    Exp:
    Retired Chef
    ,Funny but to my knowledge people in America ar living longer and longer in particular the recent past generations who did not have Organic or Health food.  CHEFHOW  IS ON THE MONEY IN MY OPINION. . I worked in a vegetarian hotel  all the people looked Anebic.Most died in their early 60s.