New chef knife

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P.s. For me the difference between serviceable and dull is an over-ripe tomato. And I prefer to shave with either a straight razor or double edge, but never a chef knife.
 
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I have only sharpened one VG10 knife, and like I said 2/3 of it sharpened much like any other "good" stainless knife and razor sharp, but 1/3 was simply impossible to sharpen to any king of reasonable edge.  If Millions and Benuser say they don't like to sharpen it, then I have to say that most VG's are considerably more trouble to sharpen.

By serviceable edge I mean an edge that is not razor sharp, but still sharp enough to get the job done well, though not exceptionally well. VG10 can get screaming sharp, but it just doesn't stay at that level for very long, but it will stay serviceable for a considerable period longer than many other alloys.


Rick
Ahh I see. What about handle wise for the knives you recommended? Are they comfortable for a big and tall guy like me?
 
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I have 5 VG10 blades and they aren't the easiest to sharpen but not much more difficult than German stainless. Ricks observation of going from screeming sharp to serviceable is my experience too, but I only need serviceable sharp so it works for me. If I want to do surgery I want screaming sharp but for cooking serviceable sharp is fine. Mine touches a stone only once a month or so. The rest of the time I rub gently on a smooth steel.
What stones do you use for sharpening? Wouldn't a steel damage the VG10 weren't VG harder than normal steels?
 
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What stones do you use for sharpening? Wouldn't a steel damage the VG10 weren't VG harder than normal steels?
Natural Arkansas stones: Coarse (500#), medium (700#), fine (900#) and finer (3000# - I think)

Ribbed steels seem to do more harm than good but smooth steel seems to help. As I said, a gentle touch with the steel is all it takes. I cringe when I see folks rapidly smashing their blades on steels in a frantic uncontrolled manner... what a waste of time.
 
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Arks would be a considerable expense for Cysoon to acquire, and there would be no sense in it of course.

Use the same waterstones you've been using all along.  I have a translucent Arkansas I use for finishing, just because it's what I have right now and it works (about 12K as the actual finish it leaves), but waterstones are much faster and won't damage the harder steels like arks can if the stones edges get chipped or you're not careful in general.  Touch up is up to you, whether stropping on a dry stone (not clay based though) or using a ceramic hone, or a smooth steel.

Rick
 
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Arks would be a considerable expense for Cysoon to acquire, and there would be no sense in it of course.

Use the same waterstones you've been using all along.  I have a translucent Arkansas I use for finishing, just because it's what I have right now and it works (about 12K as the actual finish it leaves), but waterstones are much faster and won't damage the harder steels like arks can if the stones edges get chipped or you're not careful in general.  Touch up is up to you, whether stropping on a dry stone (not clay based though) or using a ceramic hone, or a smooth steel.

Rick
Perhaps.  But he asked what I used not what I think he should get. I assume he knows his wallet better than do we.  :)

I totally agree with the notion of using what one already has if it will work.  One comment, though, on ceramic hone. I've not found it very useful for VG10 and prefer to straighten an edge with fine stone or smooth steel. Maybe I'm not using ceramic hone correctly but it seems to lead to a very short-lived result.
 
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Arks would be a considerable expense for Cysoon to acquire, and there would be no sense in it of course.

Use the same waterstones you've been using all along.  I have a translucent Arkansas I use for finishing, just because it's what I have right now and it works (about 12K as the actual finish it leaves), but waterstones are much faster and won't damage the harder steels like arks can if the stones edges get chipped or you're not careful in general.  Touch up is up to you, whether stropping on a dry stone (not clay based though) or using a ceramic hone, or a smooth steel.


Rick
Rick, what I use now are some cheap Chinese brand stones and a fine stone but I want to get my own sets for me to use only. What are some stones you would recommend that is affordable and durable?
 
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This is similar/same as what I use.  Inexpensive ($25 - starting bid but I never checked the completed so don't know what the final prices are like) but shipping to you is about $50 on top of that.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arkansas-Tr...074?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d33c18bea

I bought mine from the guys who make them in Arkansas a long time ago.  This one is 8 inch and mine is 10.  Can't recall the price I paid but I think it was less than $50 USD

I've seen Chinese knockoffs that one of the big kitchen supply retailers sells for about twice this price. Interestingly, they actually looked pretty good to me... but I just looked and never tried them.
 
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There are a number of reasons you want to stay away from Arks, especially the cheap ones, but main reason is they are just too damn slow, especially on the harder steels.  Much slower than even the Chinese slate stones you are very likely using if you are using Chinese natural waterstones.  For what it's worth, Brian and I have what could be called "vintage" Arks.  Today Hals is the only supplier I think that can still deliver similar quality, in terms of flaws or inclusions.  Some offer what are not even real Arks, but just crushed stone held together with a binder.

Iminishi is a very good and inexpensive stone that may be available to you, Bester and Beston are 2 others.  Niniwa super stones and King are cheap, but they cut slower and also wear much faster.  If you can get them 2 good stones by Niniwa are their Green Brick of Joy (2K) and Snow White (8K).

Iminishi and others make a number of combination stone:220/400, 400/1K, 1K/4K, 1K/6K, about in these ranges.  This route can keep down your initial investment, just make sure your are buying the full size 8"/205mm stones.

You should have a 400 or 500 for ordinary thinning and reprofiling, a 1k or 2k and a finishing stone.

Rick
 
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If the main reason cysoon wants to upgrade from Victorinox is to get better edge taking, I don't think it makes sense to recommend using a medium-coarse stone for finishing. That provides a serviceable edge by European standards but definitely not the kind of sharp edge you'd expect from a Japanese knive.

cysoon, I'd like to echo everyone else's suggestion to go with the Hiromoto or Carbonext over the Tojiro if you're looking to spend less than the Mac. It's not that the Tojiro DP is bad, but from its use of VG-10 to its sanmai construction to its handles that some people find uncomfortable, I don't think it's really in the same league as the other two for your first *good* chef's knife. Also, both the Hiromoto and Carbonext are sold by JCK, which is said to have excellent shipping worldwide.

I'd go with the Hiromoto over the Carbonext since the Carbonext is said to often have such a bad edge out of the box (OOTB) that it requires reprofiling, which is a task you don't really want to do unless your sharpening is good enough that you trust it for coarse work. It's also nice to have a knife that's somewhat sharp out of the box if you haven't experienced Japanese-level sharpness before so that you have a point of reference. If you're confident enough with your sharpening to set a bevel, then you might want to check out the Carbonext since it uses a semi-stainless alloy that should take carbon-like edges and feel like carbon on stones.

By the way, if you can afford it (but only if that doesn't come at the expense of stones), I'd go with the Mac because the profile isn't as santoku-like as the Hiromoto, and it will likely have better grind, F&F, and OOTB sharpness than either knife.

As for stones, you really want at minimum (1) a coarse stone for occasional reprofiling, (2) a medium-coarse stone for sharpening, and (3) a medium-fine stone for polishing. The better the stones, the easier your life will be and the more you'll enjoy sharpening and the more you'll get around to keeping your knives sharp. I highly recommend skipping the entry waterstone tier and moving to the "very good performance at a pretty good value" tier. So we're not talking Gesshin or Chosera prices, but we do want to still have very good performance.

One of the best coarse stones that's also good value is the Beston 500. Examples of medium-coarse stones at a similar level of "very good performance but also good value" are the Bester 1200 and the Arashiyama 1k. Examples of medium-fine stones in that tier are the Arashiyama 6k and the Suehiro Rika "5k". I don't know how shipping would work, but CKtG has less expensive kits that combine the Beston 500, the Bester 1200, and the Suehiro Rika into one.

*If* you wanted to step up to even higher quality stones (and I'm not assuming you do!), the best value at the top tier is said to be the Gesshin stones at JKI. Jon Broida sells a kit of the Gesshin 400, Gesshin 2k (which cuts faster than most 1k stones), and Gesshin 6k. They're said to cut faster yet leave more refined edges than almost anything else at similar grit levels. I currently sharpen on an Edge Pro (so take all of my second-hand waterstone advice with a grain of salt!), but if and when I switch to freehand it will probably be to that Gesshin kit.
 
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Speaking of sets, Toolsfromjapan have nice deals on 2 stone sets (near bottom of page), one meets the terrify restraints:

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=335_404_403

They come with stone holder and diamond flattening plate.  Of course any rough and reasonably flat surface can be used for flattening, but the diamond plate will cover for a course stone (the 800 would be recommended), that the sets don't come with.

Rick
 
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I have not heard of it.

The references I can find through Google suggest that this stone comes from China.  No product reviews seem to be available.  All purchase information I can find seem to suggest that the only sources are online from Chinese sources only.

The name "Sapphire" may be some sort of product information, since sapphires are essentially a crystalline form of aluminum oxide.

That's all I can figure out.

GS
 
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Hi all its me again, so I've decided to purchase the tojiro DP but unfortunately a dealer I can easily go to does not carry the DP series but they do carry PRO DP COBALT and color series so may I ask all you experts here to tell me what you guys know about these knives? Thanks
 
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For the record, as this is a 'big hands knife' thread of sorts, I thought I would weigh in my 2c

I bought a Carbonext from reading threads here and have big hands - not XXL, but XL I would say, and the handle I find small and uncomfortable. I use near enough a pinch grip and still my little finger grips the end 'lip' (not sure of the correct name) of the handle

I am not a precision cutter, in fact a very armature home cook, but nevertheless. I prefer a bigger bellied rock chopping profile blade

The Robert Welch Signature (10") chef's I have has a long handle is a thing of joy to use. It holds its edge better than anything I have used (Victorinox 8" included), can easily use all of the blade and sharpens well (on a stone). The other knife I have is a Tim Malzer Kai Shun 9" which I also find fine

HTH's any big hands looking in
 
510
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Joined May 29, 2013
MillionsKnives is right about the "Pro" DP line.  Same blade (sanmai cladded construction), different handle, higher price and probably higher profit margins to the distributor and/or retailer.

I would not bother with the "color coded" knives.  Plain old Molybdenum Vanadium steel may be okay for European quality knives, but aren't in the same quality range as VG-10 core steel knives.

You might want to look at Pete's Kitchenwares for the Tojiro DP 240 mm gyuto, Model F-809 at RM362.00.  The website for the F-809 is: http://peteskitchenwares.com/product/f809-chef-knife/

Hope that helps.

Galley Swiller
 
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For the record, as this is a 'big hands knife' thread of sorts, I thought I would weigh in my 2c

I bought a Carbonext from reading threads here and have big hands - not XXL, but XL I would say, and the handle I find small and uncomfortable. I use near enough a pinch grip and still my little finger grips the end 'lip' (not sure of the correct name) of the handle

I am not a precision cutter, in fact a very armature home cook, but nevertheless. I prefer a bigger bellied rock chopping profile blade

The Robert Welch Signature (10") chef's I have has a long handle is a thing of joy to use. It holds its edge better than anything I have used (Victorinox 8" included), can easily use all of the blade and sharpens well (on a stone). The other knife I have is a Tim Malzer Kai Shun 9" which I also find fine

HTH's any big hands looking in
Unfortunately, the knife choices in my country are very limited but thanks for the suggestion
 
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