Need Help!!! looking for 240mm gyuto.

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by allen lum, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. allen lum

    allen lum

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    Hey guys.
    I am looking to add a new addition to my kit. I am looking for a 240mm wa handled gyuto, preferably "laser-ish". I guess I would like it to be made up of carbon alloy or semi-stainless. I currently have a tojiro white#2 210mm gyuto and really like and would like to try a 240mm. The knives that have caught my eye are:
    Konosuke white #2
    Konosuke HD 2
    Masamoto KS
    Sakai Yusuke
    Richmond Laser Aogami

    Any thought or other recommendations are greatly appreciated.
    Allen
     
  2. knyfeknerd

    knyfeknerd

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    What's your budget?
     
     
  3. allen lum

    allen lum

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    sorry for late resonds Knyfeknerd but my butget will be $350 and down.  
     
  4. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Masmoto KS and Konosuke HD2 are the class of that particular field. 

    If you're looking for a laser as good as the Konosuke are the Gesshin Ginga (white #2 or stainless), and Ikkanshi Tadatsuna (white #2 or stainless).  The Suisuin Inox Honyaki  (stainless only, as you can tell from the name) is in the same class, but more expensive.  These are all extremely good knives, and except for the differences between extremely good stainless and extremely good carbon, there isn't a whole lot to distinguish them.  Ecstasy guaranteed. 

    You know what I think about the Sakai Yusuke from another forum; that it's an excellent knife, but a heart-beat behind the others.  You also know that I think the Richmond Aogami Laser is (a) not really a laser, and (b) not in the same league.

    The Masamoto KS is as close to a perfect knife as I've ever used and it killed me not to buy it because it's a knife I've wanted forfrikkinever, but it is (a) White #2 only, and (b) not a laser.  I went with the HD because I wanted to try something besides carbon for a change, lasers were all the rage, the handle (old style) fit my grip like nothing had before, and a bunch of friends were twisting my arm.  Ow.  Alright already.  

    None of these knives are stout, all of them require some form of "heavy duty" backup for the tough stuff.

    Some people claim they can get carbon sharper than HD, and HD sharper than stainless.  Maybe, but if so it's not meaningfully sharper.  The sharpest knife I ever used was a Tadatsuna Inox.  All of these knives sharpen very easily to extreme levels of sharpness; each can take and hold extreme symmetry; each can take and hold high levels of polish; and all are good edge holders.  Count on sharpening with your usual frequency.  All of these very light knives lack the mass to function without a really good edge. 

    The Konosuke HD hits a very sweet spot, with the laid back maintenance of stainless but the smooth, sweet feel on the stones of carbon.  I have two HDs, a 270 gyuto and 300 suji. 

    You can't go wrong with any of these. 

    One last thing:  If you do decide on a laser, and if you have a sufficiently large board, you really want to consider a 270.  It's not just that the Kono 240s run short, but lasers are so light and agile you don't give up anything for the extra 3cm.   If your board just isn't big enough for a 270, and you have room for a larger one, my advice is to get a bigger board AND a 270. 

    BDL
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  5. duckfat

    duckfat

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    The Kono and Sakai have taken a price jump so IMO the KS becomes almost a no-brainer as long as you are ok with carbon. I dig my Ikkanshi's but I'm not at all convinced those being made after the factory was sold and moved are the same knives that were so highly regarded prior to the Tsunami. The Suisin Inox Honyaki is equal the the Ikkanshi's of the past but if that's the flavor you like I'd hold off until June/July when Korin does the 15% off sale.

     I'm not in the camp that thinks bigger is always better. I grab 240mm the most at home. If you are a student and/or working then I'd agree completely on the 270.

    Dave
     
  6. allen lum

    allen lum

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    Thanks knyfeknerd, BDL and DuckFat (Dave).

    After reading many other posts and your replies about the different knives listed I think I have made a decision on which knife I am going to get first. Since the HD2 is available at the moment I am going to pick it up first and when the KS returns I will pick that up after (hopefully not too soon) and probably get the sakai yusuke when that comes back in the 240mm version. In terms of the size of the konosuke hd2 I do have a large board at school the standard plastic cutting boards so I would be fine with that I am just wonder about the line at work if I would have enough room to use it. If anything I can just a larger petty or I was really interested in getting a suji to try out (in the future not now). For the other recommendations, I not too familiar with the other options that were mentioned by BDL or duck fat only know two of them the ginga and suisin. Where would I look for the other knives mentioned?

    PS: 1. The other things that was mentioned by BDL is that I should accompany the knives that I want with a heavier knife what would that be can I get some examples of them. Any knives in the similar class (higher end) wa handled (perferred).

    2. I am looking for a petty to be used as a paring knife. Only knife that has caught my eye is the Konosuke HD2 120mm. I have not held one before just like it because I don’t think I would remember to wipe it after uses. I am looking for a wa-handled petty around 120mm, I guess I would like something like stainless or semi stainless, opened to carbon. I wish not get anything with a kurouchi finish on it didn’t really care for it on my tojiro. I was using a shun premier 4 inch paring and though the knife was a bit tall (plus did not like the belly on it). I have also held a tojiro 90mm parer and though it was a bit too flat. Hope someone could recommend me something, sorry for being so picky with the petty. Also willing to spend about 150 or less (a little more is ok but price needs to be justified with performance).     

    Thank you everyone for helping me.

    Allen Lum
     
  7. allen lum

    allen lum

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    Sorry wanted to add one more thing to the last post.

    BDL you recommend i look at the Gesshin Ginga, which I have looked at on JKniveImport's channel and it looks like it has a pretty big belly, any thoughts, I may be completely wrong, because the video may just have been shot at a different angle.

    Allen Lum
     
  8. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Some belly is a good thing.  The Gesshin Ginga is a very sweet handling knife, with an appropriate amounts of belly and flat.  It's profile is definitely French and well suited to "rock," "push" or "glide."  

    With almost any line, the 240 will seem like it has more belly than the 270, but actually has a shorter flat run from the belly to the heel. 

    The Gesshins, Konosukes, Suisun, and Tadatsunas are of very similar quality and performance.  If you had them all together and tried them for a couple of weeks, you'd probably learn to separate the fly specks from the pepper and develop a hierarchy of favorites.  But that sort of in-depth comparison probably isn't possible.  The good news is that if you want a laser, you'll be thrilled with any of them.

    I LOVE the KS.  It's a great knife.  It's not quite as expensive relative to the lasers in question as it used to be, but so what?  The price difference isn't sufficiently large to be an important factor in decision making.  If you let the fact that one knife took a 10% increase four months ago, while another's was 20%, you're being distracted by trivialities.  If you can afford what you want, buy what you want; whether KS or laser.  The price differences are not enough to form an important basis of the decision. 

    Truth to tell, when it comes to cutting onions, they're equally wonderful.  Knife performance doesn't get any better.

    Given what's going on with the yen/dollar ROE, it's likely the dollar prices of damn near everything made in Japan will drop at some point in the not too distant future.  Worth holding your breath?  ???

    If you're worried about post-tsunami Tadatsuna quality, call Takeshi, the owner of Aframestokyo (Aframes is actually in Hawaii, and is, AFAIK, the only US Tadatsuna outlet).  The guy is dead honest and will tell you what's what without embellishment and without pressure to buy anything in particular.  My guess is that the speculation is baseless, but see what Takeshi says.  Actually, you might as well call him anyway as a prudent part of the "due diligence" which should go into the purchase of any expensive and exotic knife.  Jon (JKI) and Mark (CKtG) are also great sources.  I hear the guys at Epicurean Edge are as well, but you're not talking any EE knives -- at least not so far.

    BDL
     
  9. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    For heavy duty work, say going through fish spines, I used a more robust chef's knife (10" carbon Sab), instead of my Kono.  For very heavy duty work, I either used a great big 12" carbon Sab chef's or a 10" Forschner Cimiter.  But mutatis mutandi.  Onwards.  Ever forward.  Since buying it last fall, I use a 10" carbon Richmond Ultimatum for prepping any meal which includes anything those three knives could handle, but too much for the Kono.   

    If it's too scary for the Ultimatum, I'll go with spring-loaded shears, a saw, or a heavy meat cleaver.  

    The Cimiter has reasons, other than back up, to stay in my block.  If I were actually going to go out and spend money on a knife to abuse, it would be an Ontario Knife Works Old Hickory butcher knife.  10" is the most versatile, but if you want choices, you can buy all three sizes, 7", 10" and 16".  They're crude, but can be made a lot nicer with a little sandpaper; are made from a good alloy.  At less than $20 per blade, they are delightfully cheap.  You can probably still get all three butcher lengths for $50. 

    BDL
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  10. dhmcardoso

    dhmcardoso

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    Hi boar_d_laze, I am a brazilian culinary student and I am strugling with choosing a good japanese 3 set to replace my Globals, which get so slipery that makes me crazy. What I am looking for is a 210mm or 240mm Gyuto, an around 190mm Santoku and a 150mm utility. As my budget is restricted to USD400, I was thinking aboult this list: Hiromoto AS Gyuto, Shun Classic Santoku and a 150mm Tojiro DP. Would you have any other suggestions?Also, I am buying these on the internet to pick up with a parent in the US next month, so I am looking on japanesechefknifes.com, chefknifestogo.com and korin.com. Would you not recommend any of them or another one?Thank you a lot!
     
  11. knyfeknerd

    knyfeknerd

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    BDL is brilliant for bringing up the Tadatsuna! I'm currently using a Tad petty which is excellent. They are very similar to the Suisin Inox Honyaki in most all aspects. The Suisin has a better fit & finish, but if you could score a Tad for cheaper-why not?

    I'm also currently in possession of a 240 Suisin IH gyuto which is super, but is s little on the small side. I would definitely recommend this knife, but would go for it in the 270 size-but that's out of your price range.

    Takeda is awesome and very "lazery" too.
     
  12. allen lum

    allen lum

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    Thanks BDL, Knyfeknerd for your replies. dhmcardoso thanks for viewing the post

    I am actually really torn on which knife to get now because I am really interested in getting the 270mm Kono hd but on CKTG it is out of stock and so is the KS. For the gesshin ginga I would really like to try it (plus that it is on the cheaper side of what we are talking about ex $250 for 240mm) but unfortunately also out of stock. Another part that is really hard for me right now is that you told me AFramesToyko is located in Hawaii and I so happen to live in Hawaii so I could even go down and possibly take a look at what they have and get it that day if I really wanted too. So many good options to choose from but all are out of stock at the moment. For the suisin inox Honyaki I am not interested in because it is stainless and right now I am not really interested in getting one right now, thanks for telling me your views on that knife tho. Knyfeknerd thanks for the Takeda, but the ones I have seen, all have a kurouchi finish and I am not really a fan of that finish, thanks tho.

    So right now it is really a waiting game!! The knives I am interested in are:

    -Konosuke HD2 270mm Wa- Gyuto (out of stock $313+$30saya from CTKG)

    -Masamoto KS 240mm Wa-Gyuto (out of stock $325+$20saya from CTKG) 

    -Gesshin Ginga 240mm Wa-Gyuto (out of stock $250 from JKI)

    -Ikkashi Tadatsuna 240mm Wa-Gyuto (in stock $334 idk if I can pick up or ? from AFrameToyko) not really sure about this knife have no info on it but I am pretty sure it is good and very similar to the to the other knives.

    So sad hate waiting for things, I really want to starting cutting things with those knives already. Will probably get one and slowly increase my knife kit with the rest of the knives listed.

    Thank you, everyone who helped me out so far if your know anywhere else that sell the knives that are out of stock listed and shipping is not to harsh (live in Hawaii so shipping is always a lot)

    Allen Lum

    PS: For the heavy-duty knife I will probably leave it for now because I really do anything thing hard (break down chicken, lobster, or squash) at work or school. For the paring or petty I am just going to pick up the HD2 when it comes back in stock. (knyfeknerd how is your Tadstsuna petty will to try it out only available in 150mm what do you think of that size as a parer/utility knife combo.
     
  13. allen lum

    allen lum

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    15 hours, 11 minutes ago


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    • dhmcardoso

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    Hi boar_d_laze, I am a brazilian culinary student and I am strugling with choosing a good japanese 3 set to replace my Globals, which get so slipery that makes me crazy. What I am looking for is a 210mm or 240mm Gyuto, an around 190mm Santoku and a 150mm utility. As my budget is restricted to USD400, I was thinking aboult this list: Hiromoto AS Gyuto, Shun Classic Santoku and a 150mm Tojiro DP. Would you have any other suggestions? Also, I am buying these on the internet to pick up with a parent in the US next month, so I am looking on japanesechefknifes.com, chefknifestogo.com and korin.com. Would you not recommend any of them or another one? Thank you a lot!

    ReplyQuote Multi

    Hi dhmcardoso,

    Before someone start throwing knive options at you lets find out some stuff about you. Start a new post on the same forum (Cooking knives review), and answer those questions.

    1. Are you right handed?

    2. Do you know how to sharpen?

    3. What are your looking for? (ex. gyuto, petty, etc.)

    4. What is your budget? ($100? or unlimited, etc)

    5. What is the use? (professtional, home, etc)

    6. What kind of metals would you perfer? (stainless, semi, carbon)

    7. Do your perfer a wa or yo handle.?

    Allen Lum

    PS: I am not really a big fan of Shuns, because they are just expansive if your want a shun just stick to the tojiro's they are about the same. What is the reason to have a gyuto and a santoku a good one (either a santoku or chefs) can do the job no need in have 2 of a simlar thing if your just need something to start out with.
     
  14. knyfeknerd

    knyfeknerd

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    You're really missing out on the Suisins and Takedas. The IH line is probably some of the best stainless on the market. I think it outperforms a lot of the carbon knives I have. Don't believe the hype that carbon is king. It definitely has a place in everyone's bag -if you find the proper knife.

    I'll admit the KU finish on really any knife is somewhat unappealing. The KU on Takeda knives is especially thick and chunky. It does however help to combat stiction and I say function over fashion rules anyway. I was not originally a fan of the profile of the knife either as I thought it looked a little wonky. It does cut like a dream. Sometimes what is not appealing to the eye does function better. I have several knives which I thought I would hate because of the profile that have ended up being some of the best cutters.

    Oh, and the Tad....it was on loan from a friend and I just shipped it back to him. I also have a Kanehiro 150 petty too. The length is great for utility/boning/paring knife. The only task I could not do well with the length was tournee vegetables. I had to bust out an old Wusty for that.

    Speaking of Kanehiro-  CKTG has them and you might enjoy. It's a core of AS clad in semi-stainless. My petty is great, AS steel rules!
     
  15. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Let me add a little to knyfenerd...

    Suisun Inox Honyaki:

    The Suisun Inox Honyaki blade is made from Sandvik's 19C27.  19C27 is an excellent alloy, but neither is it all that uncommon, nor the "best" stainless on the market.  However, after Suisun's done forging, heat treating, and otherwise finishing it, their Inox Honyaki knives are pretty damn good.  Is the Susisun IH better than the other good stainless lasers, Gesshin Ginga, Konosuke HH and Tadatsuna Inox?  Maybe, maybe not.  But if so, it's not because their blades are better.     Price aside, there's so much "a little of this and a little of that" that it's impossible for me to go beyond "U pickem."  Suisuin IH is a great knife, no doubt. 

    The Takeda AS gyuto is not a laser.  It's almost thin enough, but not particularly light. 

    The profile is very flat.  It's a naturally good push-cutter, but rock chopping and/or gliding require the user to fight the profile a bit. For that reason only, I wouldn't buy it.  But that's a very personal preference. 

    The rustic finish is called "kurouchi," aka KU.  Even though the color is very striking, KU is probably better understood as a texture.  While coloring can be a natural consequence of the manufacturing process, the black on Takeda AS knives is lacquer.  If it's not cleaned off, it will eventually wear off; so, for that matter, will "natural" color from charcoal dust.  When the color wears off, the knife will be the same grey as any other carbon, still retaining its texture. Once the color is gone, the knife will require some action on the owner's part to prevent corrosion or harmful oxidation.  It's no big deal. 

    AS is a very good carbon steel, and the best edge-holder among the other white and blue Hitachi YSS carbons.  However, AS is problematic to work as a single steel, and most AS knives, are laminated kasumi (two layer, front and back) or san-mai (three layer, two outsides and a middle).  The Takeda AS, like all knives made to be sharpened on both sides, are san-mai.  Considering how thin the knife it is, it is quite stiff, stiffer than any of the other knives on the list; and that's a benefit of san-mai.   Some people, including me, notice that san-mai knives feel damped or "muted" compared to single steel knives.  Most people either don't notice the difference or don't care; but I do and dislike it so much that I'm too biased to judge the knife fairly in terms of its overall value.

    BDL
     
  16. allen lum

    allen lum

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    Thanks Guys (BDL, Knyfeknerd)

    Not that I don't want a stainless knife, just not right now I will need one in the future but for now I am going to be waiting for one of the 4 in the list to come back in stock. For the TAD I am still unsure of it just because I have never really heard anything about them, still want to check it out tho when I have some time when I am off I will give them a call to see if they have a showroom where I can take a look at the knife. In terms of the Takeda, the KU, I don't like the KU not because of how it looks, but because the food sticks onto the surface because it is so rough, I actually really like the black lacquer finish on it. On my tojiro I took the finish off when some sand paper and some elbow grease.

    Thank you everyone I will keep you guys updated on which knife I pick up first. I really one to get one of each and test them out side by side, not anytime soon I hope.

    Allen Lum
     
  17. knyfeknerd

    knyfeknerd

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    Actually food DOES NOT stick to the surface because it is rough. A polished blade will create more stiction because of the surface. Usually food release is a a property of the grind on the knife -a nice convex grind will help a lot if stiction is a major concern.

    The KU on a Tojiro is a bad example. You could rub it off with a napkin! I'll post a pic sometime of the finish on my Takeda.

    Allen, good luck and keep us posted on your purchase!
     
  18. alexane

    alexane

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    Can you please elaborate on what damped or "muted" means?

    Alex
     
  19. allen lum

    allen lum

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    Thank Knyfeknerd

    I will keep you posted on what knife I pick up. Just waiting for it to come back in stock and it is flying out to hawaii. Lol

    Alexane sorry cann't really help with that question idk how to explain. Hope BDL or someone else can anwser. But for what i know it just feels like the knife is very solid and flat and it doesn't give feed back when you are cutting that why I don't like my shuns feels "died" Hope I am correct.

    Allen Lum
     
  20. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    A friend of mine aptly compared it to wearing a condom. 

    BDL