Nakiri vs Kiritsuke $200 or less

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by uneunsae, Oct 27, 2016.

  1. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    Hello fellow chefs,

    I've been doing a lot of research and am looking to buy a j-knife.  Initially, I was going to buy a Shun, but after doing some research realized that I can get a real j-knife for the same price or less.  I'm a hobbyist cook (who just pretends to be Chef LOL) and my knives are only used for vegetables since I don't eat meat.  So no need for a knife that can handle bone or anything like that. Both the nakiri and kiritsuke are very appealing to me, but besides the basics of blade length, tip, etc, I do not know which of these knives would be better for me.

    Also, I don't know which steel is best.  AS, #1, #2?  What does a reactive blade look like with time?  I do take care of my knives and am willing to put in the time to learn how to properly sharpen my new one.  Stone recommendations would also be welcome.  My hands are small and I prefer a lighter knife with a Japanese handle.

    Here are a couple of the many knives I've had my eye on:

    http://www.chefknivestogo.com/tanakanakiri1.html

    http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ki210kibl2.html

    Any and all advice is most welcome.

    Thanks in advance!

    Edit:  Added links
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  2. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    You sound like you don't know what you're doing so don't get a kiritsuke.  It is a single bevel knife.  
     
  3. foody518

    foody518

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    Real kiritsuke are single beveled knives and really not so suitable for non-experienced people who are also not cooking predominantly cuisine in a Japanese way (and who know how to sharpen single beveled knives). It is something of a hybrid of yanagiba and usuba and not as good as each of those at their specified tasks.
    There are double beveled kiritsuke that are pretty flat like the traditional version but the link you listed is not this type

    I would trend towards gyuto (for its more versatile profile to different cutting techniques), nakiri, or even Chinese cleaver (which the #6 size is really more of a slicer thickness) just because it's got some extra length that helps with bigger veg like large onions or heads of cabbage+ lettuce

    Check out Tanaka knives here for if/when they are restocked http://www.metalmaster-ww.com/product/6 you are looking at a severely upmarked price for the same product

    Do you have a sharpening budget?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  4. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    Thank you for the link to that wonderful Tanaka!  If I only spent that much on a knife, I could spend the same on sharpening.  

    I would not say I am a beginner as far as technique in the kitchen; the hurdle for me with a single bevel kiritsuke would be learning how to sharpen it properly. I do cook a lot of Japanese/Korean food as I am Korean. 
     
  5. foody518

    foody518

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    What sharpening are you doing for your current knives?
     
  6. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    Honing steel about twice a week then I have a sharpening stone that I use when the knives need it.  It's a Chinese stone and I absolutely need to get a better one.  My plan was to replace both knives and stone. 
     
  7. foody518

    foody518

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    Single bevel sharpening is a very different beast. You'd also want a whole range of stones to take it up finer. And not go budget on a single bevel knife to avoid as many grind problems as possible. And go with a vendor that can definitely provide initial sharpening ('opening') of the knife

    Drop the honing steel when you move to harder knives. 

    Here's a rec

    https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/nakiri/products/gesshin-uraku-165mm-skd-nakiri

    Blade grind is good. A sexy nakiri. I have to talk myself out of getting this when I go get to see it in person :3

    https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...-medium-stones/products/1000-3000-combo-stone or the version with the base but it's a slight budget breaker. Those dimensions should be fine if the biggest thing you're sharpening is a nakiri. 

    Waterstones dish over time, and you're going need a flattening solution sometime down the line. Look to the stone fixers or diamond plate here https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/sharpening-accessories or Wet or Dry coarse sandpaper backed on a flat surface but will obviously need to be rebought over time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  8. foody518

    foody518

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    Reactivity-


    Monosteel carbon, then Ikazuchi in the back which is stainless clad carbon. Like you I cut predominantly fruits & vegetables so I don't tend get crazy crazy colors like some


    Soft iron clad carbon that gets sharpening and polished all the time because it's pretty rust prone. This was just a little bit of slicing reconstituted shiitake mushrooms.

    None of these have been used enough period or without getting periodically polished a bit to represent the awesome stable patinas like I've seen on some vintage/heavy use monosteel carbons (that well used knife look)

    Edit - meant to mention, that stainless clad semi-stainless nakiri I linked isn't going to get anywhere like these as far as discoloration/patina. It'll probably just slooooowly go cloudy gray where the core steel is exposed
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
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  9. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    Thank you for all of this info!  I'm getting a really good idea of what I should be aiming for now.  So I don't necessarily have to aim for AS or Blue #2 (like the nakiri I posted)?

    Oh yes, I'd totally forgotten about "opening the knife" on a single bevel.  Maybe I will move to a single bevel later on when I can spend the money on an outstanding knife and sharpening kit.  Whatever I buy, I do not want to cut corners because these knives should last a lifetime.
     
  10. foody518

    foody518

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    What's giving you this impression?

    You could also check for when this restocks http://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/itinomonn-kasumi-180mm-wa-nakiri/

    Edit - Yikes, I didn't initially notice you linked the Blue #2 Tanaka nakiri (I linked back the VG10 version). By most if not all accounts it's very reactive and fully soft iron clad so you don't even have a kurouchi layer helping you out for like half the blade. Unless you're very used to using reactive blades I would be hesitant to recommend this as the first one. And metalmaster had it for $68 when it was last stocked...
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  11. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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  12. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    No worries.  I just submitted a post with the link to the V10 but it will show up later due to pending approval.  LOL
     
  13. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

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    Don't go single bevel on this budget. You WILL regret it. I have never hated a knife, except the one really cheap usuba I picked up at a flea market in Kyoto. You simply cannot make it work right. (Then I got a real usuba, and adore it.) I use mostly single-bevel, all carbon, and I can tell you that cheap here is a very, very bad thing.

    As to your technique, single bevels aren't harder to use and sharpen, but they're utterly different. So you'd have to re-learn. That means a large commitment of time, money, and frustration.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    Yikes!  Thank you for letting me know.  I'll stay away from single bevel until I have money to experiment.  It's looking like nakiri for me. 
     
  15. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

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    Why not a gyuto?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    Because I mostly do straight up and down chopping plus slicing and I wanted a specialty knife.  I am not opposed to gyuto, but it's not what I had in mind.

    Edit: This gyuto did catch my attention http://www.chefknivestogo.com/mamigy21.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  17. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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  18. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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  19. foody518

    foody518

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    Again really overpriced on those knives...try Knifewear instead. https://knifewear.com/collections/masakage-mizu/products/masakage-mizu-gyuto-210mm Make sure you toggle to USD (it's defaulted to CAD). Note that the Mizu is fully reactive, as is the Moritaka, and for sure the Moritaka cladding is somewhat stink/rust prone

    https://knifewear.com/collections/masakage-yuki/products/masakage-yuki-gyuto-210mm

    https://www.paulsfinest.com/Moritak...i-Blue-Super-Carbon-Steel.html?category_id=86 though last year it was possible to order direct from Moritaka and I received a 240mm from them for like under $150 including shipping. I'd recommend you browse elsewhere for good value knives in this price range.

    If you're comfortable stepping it up to $200 then consider Ikazuchi 240mm at Japanese Knife Imports

    https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...uchi-240mm-stainless-clad-blue-super-wa-gyuto

    https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/products/gesshin-220mm-chinese-cleaver To echo Millions's chukabocho recommendation, but in stainless for ease of maintenance. Good chukabocho just fall through veg...
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  20. uneunsae

    uneunsae

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    Thanks for the links, both of you! 

    There doesn't seem to be a place that sells J-Knives other than Shun in my city.  It's too bad I can't get my hands on these to demo them.

    One question, something like a kabocha squash will chip these knives, yes?  My cheap knives will be kept for jobs like that.