Mire Poix ??'s again

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by quetex, Nov 27, 2010.

  1. quetex

    quetex

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    Did a search here on the forum but could not find an answer and actually brought up another question.

    What is the ratio of veggies to make the mp? onions,garlic and celery, how much of each?

    Couldnt find the thread this time but a while back read that you very slowly roast without browning said veggies in oil to cook out the moisture right? What kind of oil? How long?

    I assume after the long slow cooking the veggies are very soft and oily so do you just make a paste and store it in the fridge until needed? How long can it be stored?

    No mention of salt in the threads that I did find so it doesnt take any right?

    Also noticed in another thread for making stock, it sounds like the veggies are added to the stock/broth without going throught the slow roasting process, thats not called mp then is it?

    Gracias amigos
     
  2. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    Mire poix is just  2 parts onion 1 part celery, 1 part carrot.

    That's it, that's all it is. No cooking, seasoning or other.

    It gets used in lots of dishes in various ways.
     
  3. french fries

    french fries

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    Mirepoix = diced celery, onions & carrots.

    The "classic" ratio is 2:1:1 (onions, celery, carrots), but you don't have to stick to that if you don't want to.

    You can use raw mirepoix (for white stock), you can brown your mirepoix (for brown stock), you can roast it, you can sweat it in butter, in oil, in suet, etc... for soups, stocks, sauces...

    There are also infinite variations on the mirepoix. Some of them have their own names (Soffrito, Matignon, Holy Trinity, etc...). They can include just about anything from ham, pork belly, garlic, bell peppers, herbs, turnip, fennel, leeks, etc etc...
     
  4. quetex

    quetex

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    Hmmm, I'm gonna have to dig some more to find that thread so someone can explain.

    Thanks
     
  5. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    You use mire poix in lots of cooking but to have mire poix itself, it's just knifework.
     
  6. petemccracken

    petemccracken

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  7. teamfat

    teamfat

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    Often I use the classic mix as a roasting rack - I slice the carrots in half lengthwise, thickly slice the onions and use them. along with some ribs of celery to line the bottom of a roasting pan before putting in the spatchcocked chicken, the beef chuck roast, the pork shoulder or whatever. Or ditch the carrot in favor of bell pepper strips - Louisiana trinity.

    mjb.
     
  8. quetex

    quetex

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    Thanks all
     
  9. jrock645

    jrock645

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    This is always a great debate... I especially love how when you ask people what mirepoix is, they name three vegetables, instead of answering the actual question as to what mirepoix is. Its not quite as defined as naming three vegetables, but the answer is really actually a bit simpler than that. Mirepoix is simply defined as a rough garnish of aromatic vegetables used to flavor a stock, sauce, etc(rice, stews, soups, so on and so forth). It can be strained out, or used in the final presentation of the end product.

    The vegetables used is determined by the context of the preparation. For a brown veal stock, the standard onion/celery/carrot is what you would likely use. For a white veal stock, carrots would not be used, and you would likely instead opt for leeks and/or some parsnips. For a seafood fumet, carrots,again, would likely be left out, and in addition to the aforementioned leeks and parsnips, fennel is often used. As for no cooking of the mirepoix prior to going into the stock, thats not entirely accurate. For a brown stock, you're very likely roasting(or sauteeing) those vegetables to caramelize them and create a bolder, more pronounced flavor. With your white stocks, they can simply be added right into the stock, or are lightly sweated.

    Finally, for presentation, in stocks you're obviously straining these vegetables out prior to using it. But for a sort of "country" style beef stew where you're going for a less refined presentation, its obviously very acceptable to serve with the mirepoix in the stew. Obviously, given the context, the cut size/shape will very according to what you're doing. Typically in stocks, the shape doesn't really matter since its being left out- the most important thing is size of the cut(longer cooking stocks like a brown veal stock will be cut larger than a chicken stock, and fish fumets will require smaller mirepoix yet since they are generally cooked for only an hour or so). Most of us aren't that particular about how pretty mirepoix for stocks look, and then theres people like Thomas Keller, that require absolute precision and near competition worthy knife work for vegetables used for stocks, and won't hesitate to call you a piece of worthless garbage if you're knife work isn't absolutely pristine.

    All in all, when it comes to mirepoix, its all about context.
     
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  10. gobblygook

    gobblygook

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    You may have been looking at a specific recipe or a technique or something.  You do season it and you do cook it, but by itself, it's just cut up veggies.  As you've already read, garlic wasn't mentioned.  It isn't that you can't add it as a seasoning, just that the classic mire poix is a base starting point. 
     
     
  11. dc sunshine

    dc sunshine

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    teamfat - I'm glad you mentioned the Louisiana mirepoix.  was about to do it but you beat me to it :)

    I like to use a mirepoix as a rack for roasts, chicken especially.  In which case, it's just big chunks of celery, carrots and onion.  I add garlic as I love the stuff, but it's not a standard ingredient as such.  I season the veg as I like to layer the seasonings, making the most of each ingredient.  Once finished, the mirepoix gets mushed up, sieved, and used as a base for a sauce. Or conversely, sometimes I'll just use the veggies as a side, draining them off and using the juices for a sauces.  You can make the veg au gratin under the griller/broiler if you want.
     
  12. chefedb

    chefedb

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    I do it same way and I also use Garlic, and Parsnips.
     
  13. kyheirloomer

    kyheirloomer

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    What we're running into is yet another case of a term being broadened out to include other, similar preparations.

    While there are many flavor bases made with aromatic vegetables, mirepoix is a very specific one, consisting of cut-up onions, celery, and carrots in a ratio of 2:1:1 

    Changing it around creates a different flavor base, and it is technically no longer a mirepoix. That's why its called "the trinity" in Louisiana, and "sofrito" in Italy, and so forth. In each case, either the actual ingredients or their relationships are not the same as a mirepoix's.

    At base, it's all about communication. If, in JRock's kitchen, for instance, they want to call every flavor a base a mirepoix, that's their concern. But in most kitchens that doesn't work. The people doing the prep work either know what a mirepoix is---and will automatically start chopping if you call for one, or will have to be walked through it no matter what the base is that you're looking for.

    In the home kitchen, on the other hand, does it really matter? Do you tell yourself, "prepare a mirepoix?" Or do you merely chop up the aromatics and cook the dish?
     
  14. chefedb

    chefedb

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    AT WORK ITS  o,c and c but home my taste I add garlic , parsnips.
     
  15. jrock645

    jrock645

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    You're completely and utterly wrong. Mirepoix for fish fumet and mirepoix for brown veal stock are nothing alike- no carrots in a white stock, and due to cooking time, the mirepoix for the fish fumet is going to be cut smaller. Thusly, if I call out to someone that I need a mirepoix cut, I'm going to specify what its for. I can't stress context enough.
     
  16. tylerm713

    tylerm713

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    That may be the way your kitchen operates, but that doesn't mean that mire poix has multiple definitions. According to wikipedia: "Mirepoix is the French name for a combination of onions, carrots, and celery." That's all there is to it.
     
  17. jrock645

    jrock645

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    You really think wikipedia is the final authority? Wikipedia is a user created site. I could go on there and write that stainless steel is inherently pink. Doesn't make it true. And just for the sake of argument, I'll throw you a bit of a bone- the 2:1:1 of onion/carrot/celery is the most typically used mirepoix. But it does not define the word. Once and for all, mirepoix is comprised of aromatic vegetables, specific vegetables and proportions used are determined by what the said mirepoix is being used for.

    And also for the sake of argument, credentials... I trained under two CMC's(certified master chef), trained under another chef that trained under about a half a dozen CMC's and also wrote the curriculum for the Art Institute.

    And you just like food, eh?
     
  18. chrisbelgium

    chrisbelgium

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    Theoretically a mirepoix is simply onion, carrot and celery. There's no further explanation on how many of each you should use, nor how to cut it.

    When cooking fish, many times fennel is added to the standard mirepoix mixture.

    There's also a "fat" mirepoix where bacon is added to the standard mirepoix, mostly for use in meatsauces.

    Any other mixture is just a combination of aromates. Very often if not mostly (wrongly) called mirepoix. In fact, who cares?
     
  19. kyheirloomer

    kyheirloomer

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    Ya know, JRock, when I first read your posts my reaction was, "this guy is sure heavy on academics. I wonder how he does in real-world kitchens?" And everything you say merely supports that.

    I will comment on your last post to me, but first, I want you to know that I, for one, take great umbrage at your smug, self-satisfied attack on Tyler. He may not be a professionally trained cook. But I'll stack his real knowledge about food and cookery against anyone---even (or, perhaps, especially) a cmc trained cook.

    Now, as to your last post. Nobody is questioning that different contexts call for different flavor bases. What's at issue is the specific name of one such base, and what it means. As I said, if, in your restaurant, it works to assign that name to various bases, that's just fine. But I also suggest that if you called out for a mirepoix in 99% of the restaurants in North America, those variations won't mean a thing to the prep guy. He likely knows what a mirepoix is, even if you don't.

    Apparently, despite all your academic training, you have not learned the classic definitions of things. Perhaps, before trying to expand the extensional definition used in your restuarant to the rest of the world you either take some time to learn what words actually mean, or broaden your experience base to see how most of the world does things.
     
  20. jrock645

    jrock645

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    Merely supports what? Lets talk about academics... I'm 25, couldn't afford to go to school, and beat out somebody with a masters from a big name culinary school to get the sous chef position I currently hold, which happens to be at a top 10 ranked private club. How I perform in a real world kitchen speaks for itself. Again, what are your credentials?