Meat Stock Ingredients: What different results can be expected between veal bones and beef bones

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by schmoozer, Mar 23, 2010.

  1. schmoozer

    schmoozer

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    Some years ago I made a recipe for an excellent meat stock, and over the years have made it several times.  Lately, however, it's becoming more difficult to get the veal bones that the technique calls for (the recipe calls for both beef and veal bones), and I was wondering just what the veal bones brings to the pot.  What do I gain when using veal bones that beef bones won't give me?

    Thanks!
     
  2. mgchef

    mgchef

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    Well, since it really is based on your opinion in the end, the only way to do it is test your recipe with all beef bones, and again with beef and veal bones.
     
  3. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Veal bones bring a rounder, fuller taste.  Beef stock has a very definite "beefy" quality.  The veal taste is richer, yet more elusive at the same time. 

    BDL
     
  4. schmoozer

    schmoozer

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    It's going to be a schlep to the next town, but I'll not substitute the veal bones.  Someone suggested using pig's feet or chicken wings, but I don't know if that's what I want in the stock.
     
  5. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Probably wouldn't be quite the same.  Maybe some Campbell's Chunky Clam Chowder though...

    BDL
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  6. nicko

    nicko Founder of Cheftalk.com Staff Member

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     Really depends on what your doing with the sauce but more often than not veal stock (veal bones) are the basis of most meat based sauces. I recall using beef stock mostly for soups and braises. The veal bones seem to bring more of a finess to the foundation of a sauce.
     
  7. vohrtex

    vohrtex

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     My memory, if right, is that there  is much more collagen in the younger bones of veal, so that you get much more gelatin in your stock. gelatin means body in the texture of your product. a good veal stock should set solid in your refrigerator. So it is a question of both your taste and the texture you want.
     
  8. nicko

    nicko Founder of Cheftalk.com Staff Member

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     You are correct vohrtex there is more collagen. Good call out.
     
  9. gnnairda

    gnnairda

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     Can you simply just add gelatin powder to get similar results?
     
  10. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Originally Posted by gNnairdA  
    No.

    BDL
     
  11. nicko

    nicko Founder of Cheftalk.com Staff Member

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     Well you can and it will add the gelatinous texture but it will seriously lack depth and flavor. Typically you only add gelatin to a stock if you didn't do something right. In all my years of cooking I never once had to add gelatin to a stock for that purpose. 
     
  12. gnnairda

    gnnairda

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    sorry I didn't phrase that right, but what I meant was when making a stock/ broth with parts that has a lower levels of collagen but still with lots of flavor and adding the gelatin to give it its "body".
     
  13. dc sunshine

    dc sunshine

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    Beef bones are nice and beefy in a stock to be sure; veal bones give it a refinement that just isn't there unless you do use them.    I'd say it's worth the trip but make sure you have a lot of time free to make a lot and stock (pun intended) up on your beef/veal stock.   Buy as much as you can - freeze them even in portions if you don't have time on the day for later use.  The more bones, the more gelatintinous the end product,  Same with any bone stock.  Have tried to make chicken stock without bones before...blecch.  Didn't use gelatin to gel it - just fed it to the dog.  It tasted ok, but was not what I wanted.

    Love it when the stock comes out of the fridge for getting the fat cap off, and the stock wobbles around but only just a little.  You just know it's going to taste good.
     
  14. benway

    benway

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    Absolutely you can.  But collagen provides a lot of flavor when it breaks down into gelatin.  If you can find a way to get identical flavor, adding gelatin can give you identical "body" as its exactly the same stuff that would be forming from bones.  Veal stock is ancient compared to modern gelatin sheets or packets, If the reason veal bones are being used over beef is just for the gelatin I wouldn't be surprised.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  15. mgchef

    mgchef

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    What, they bring completely different flavors I don't know anybody that uses veal bones in a beef stock just for the collagen. Over the summer, I got to go to a 4 1/2 star restaurant and work there and see what it's like in a professional kitchen. My dad is good friends with the owner, and I got to make stock. I tasted beef stock and veal stock and they're way different. The only reason I use gelatin is for microfiltration which is my favorite way of making stock
     
  16. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    I would have thought that veal stock would give a more gelatenous mouthfeel over beef stock.  Might I also add that for the first time I cooked, that is, prepared boiled pigs feet with the usual bouquet garni and veggies.  And the chilled product it yielded gave a veeeeeery clear and perhaps praisworthy gel or aspic (unclarified, of course) and the mouthfeel was thick.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  17. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    The big difference between veal stock and beef stock isn't the amount of collagen any more than the big difference between fish stock and chicken stock is the color.

    BDL
     
  18. dc sunshine

    dc sunshine

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    Although I don't get the chance to frequent them much, when I go to a high end restaurant, and a dish includes "veal jus" - I'm in.  There's just a certain character to it that nothing else can mimick.

    Beef stock - l enjoy it for its depth on its own, or add the veal for an extra treat, basically.   At many of our family's weddings (Latvian cooking) we have had many excellent beef consommes in a teacup as an app. - I suspect there may have been veal in there too.  Just a cup of consomme - no breadsticks, garnishes, etc.  beautiful start to a meal. 

    As for a good chicken stock - same thing,  It's gotta be done well, but when it is- heaven.  Golden, rich - so tasty. 

    Fish stock - please don't cook it too long.
     
  19. schmoozer

    schmoozer

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    I didn't realize Campbell's made a chunky chowder.  That sounds SUPER!
     
  20. schmoozer

    schmoozer

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