Masamoto vs Tojiro DP vs Hattori FH vs Misono UX10

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by Vera, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. Vera

    Vera

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Exp:
    Just graduated, currently working part time in a restaurant. Used to work at a hotel for intern!
    Hi guys, would appreciate some advice from people who have used these knives before! I just graduated and am currently working, I have an Atlantic Chef Knife (Premium Series) that can't hold its edge so I'm planning to get a Japanese knife.

    I'm pretty comfortable with the length of my current knife, which I believe should be around 21cm (Not too sure and I didn't measure it)..

    I mostly cut veggies, fruits and bread, occasionally some meat and fish

    On quite a budget but I currently have these few options:
    The Tojiro DP which I can get from the shop brand new at around ~97USD
    The Masamoto VG Gyuto 180mm which includes a saya at around ~135USD
    The Misono UX10 240mm which also includes a saya but it's a used knife, at around ~150USD
    and lastly the Hattori FH Series which includes both a 210mm gyuto and paring knife at around 225USD which is also a used pair of knives.

    I really can't make up my mind considering the fact that it's pretty difficult to find all the above knives in my country to be able to have a feel of the weight etc. I was leaning towards the Misono UX10 but I was afraid it'd be too long, and I've read somewhere that it's not really suitable for pinch grippers which I predominantly am. The Masamoto sounded like a great option, but again I was afraid that 180mm would be too short.

    Anybody has any experience with the Hattori? Does it hold its edge well? There are plenty of reviews of the Tojiro DP online, but I can't seem to find much information about the Hattori FH series.

    Also, I haven't really learned how to sharpen my knives with a stone, I usually just send them to the shops. Should I get a ceramic rod if I get a Japanese knife? Or can I just continue using a steel honing rod?

    Thank you in advance for any input!
     
    phaedrus likes this.
  2. benuser

    benuser

    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    90
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    What do you know about those used knives? Used by whom, state of maintenance, remaining width of the blades?
    Both the UX-10 and the FH can be very interesting, but as you're a novice as a sharpener, they're not the ones to start with. From that perspective neither the DP would be my first choice.
    If possible I would prefer a 240 over a 210. You get used to it within an hour or so, and never go back. In a home situation a 180 may work, provided you have a long slicer you may use from time to time for cabbage, melons and so.

    By the way: where do you live? Might be relevant as shipping costs and taxes can be decisive.
    Sharpening good knives involves the reconstitution of an edge at a thicker part of the blade. So, with any good sharpening, at least some thinning is required. Yes, you will need stones for maintenance.
    A ceramic rod is only an emergency solution in a hectic pro environment. A steel rod is a traditional maintenance instrument for very soft steel types — not our case here.
    As a first stainless Japanese knife with a Western handle I would choose the Misono 440. Or the Fujiwara FKM. Have a look at JCK, japanesechefsknife.com
    World wide shipping US$7.
     
    Vera likes this.
  3. galley swiller

    galley swiller

    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    54
    Exp:
    At home cook
    Knowing what country you are in is critical to advising you as to knife availability. Knife availability is very much country-by-country.

    I agree with benuser about length. You should definitely go for a longer length than 210mm. In fact, for a professional environment, a 240mm blade is really just about the shortest length you should accept. In fact, anything between 240mm to 270mm will be the practical range for professional commercial use.

    To get an immediate ballpark estimate on the length of most chef's knives, I generally look at comparing the length of the handle to the length of the blade. I've found that most handles are about 5 inches, or about 125mm to 130mm long. I can then estimate the length of the blade based on that.

    Whatever you do, don't use an ordinary steel honing rod with Japanese blades. The steel in quality japanese blades is harder than is used in ordinary steel "sharpening steels" (more properly known as honing rods). You will just damage both the edge of your quality Japanese blade and the honing rod. A ceramic honing rod will be safe to use, but learning to sharpen (and not just hone) your own knives is an essential cutlery skill. You need to do that yourself and not rely upon someone else.

    Watch Jon Broida's YouTube videos to see how to sharpen. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgJbCAVxzDHKaKYeuGYyOA

    Galley Swiller
     
    Vera likes this.
  4. Vera

    Vera

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1
    Exp:
    Just graduated, currently working part time in a restaurant. Used to work at a hotel for intern!
    Hey guys! Thank you so much for your input, looks like there's a lot to consider when buying used knives (Which I obviously didn't know before haha).
    I'm living in Singapore, initially wanted to order my knives off CKTG but the shipping came up to 60USD which was pretty pricey.. USD7 for shipping definitely sounds reasonable! So I'll be check out the website and my local shop to try out the Tojiro DP before making my decision!

    I'm definitely planning on learning how to sharpen my knives using whetstones, just didn't have much of an opportunity and the confidence to do so when I was an intern. Will get a few soon and practice using my knives at home, thanks for the tips guys! Cheers! :p

    Not sure if you can see the links but here's the UX10:
    https://sg.carousell.com/p/mizuno-u...10&ref_reqId=1B93tlwEtO1F14rts4QjJCzBY17OlRHM

    and the Hattori Knives:
    https://sg.carousell.com/p/good-con...ri&ref_reqId=t295fLcjnlZxou01tKIS0zh3EB2CVScI
     
  5. phaedrus

    phaedrus

    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    121
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    I agree, a 210 is a bit short for restaurant work. Japanese knives are enough lighter and more agile that you can easily go up one size from what you normally prefer in a German blade. Length aside, the Tojiro is a great knife for the money although not the bargain they used to be (the price increased a but a few years ago). Still competitive for the money though. The Hattori FH is a wonderful knife, about as good as it gets for a Yo-type knife in VG-10.

    The Kagayaki Carbonext from JCK is among my favorites. I've got much more expensive knives but I still have two of them in my work knife case (a 300mm sujihiki and a 240mm gyuto). They're easy to sharpen with very good edge retention and a reasonably thin blade.
     
  6. phaedrus

    phaedrus

    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    121
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    BTW, yeah- get a ceramic hone! Better still a glass one if you can find one and a ceramic. It will still need sharpening but a fine ceramic will help you maintain it between sharpenings. A leather strop is good as well.
     
  7. phaedrus

    phaedrus

    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    121
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    IIRC JapaneseChefsKnife.com ships to your area via EMS for $7. They have a great selection and Koki offers great service. They'll hand pick something out too if you email them with your needs.
     
  8. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    182
    Exp:
    Chef Emeritus
    I have all the knives you mentioned, including the Atlantic Chef.

    They are all good. I cannot say which I like the most. Probably the UX-10?

    If you are not good at sharpening knives yet, those Japanese ones won't be a good choice for you.

    I find that my Atlantic Chef holds the edge just fine. It's the knife I'm using in my current rotation. You only need to steel it once a day.
     
  9. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,239
    Likes Received:
    116
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    iHomeer on Amazon, $11.99 for an 8" chefs in AUS-8! $69.97 for the damascus in AUS-10. Too bad nothing bigger, the aus-8 got decent reviews on kkf.
     
  10. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    151
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    I bought my wife a Masamoto VG 10 a while back. It's fine, but I'm not a fan.
     
  11. benuser

    benuser

    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    90
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    Chris, could you by chance tell us about your own impressions?
    Especially curious about F&F. I'm quite aware that a brand name in Japan doesn't mean different series leave the same factory, but we have experienced in these and other pages so big fluctuations in F&F with the Masamoto HC — the virgin carbon series, and even serious problems arising that made me doubt whether still some Quality Control took place.
    How about the VG?
     
  12. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    151
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    I didn't find any particular f&f problems. I do find the blade whippy and that it's annoying to sharpen. It doesn't take a whole lot of polish either. To be fair, all my other experience with Masamoto has been with KS knives, which sharpen like something involving witchcraft and black magic, and take ludicrous polish.
     
    phaedrus likes this.
  13. benuser

    benuser

    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    90
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    Thanks for sharing and for your time, Chris. Pleasure in sharpening is a major requirement to me.
     
  14. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    151
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    KS all the way, then. It's a dream.
     
  15. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,239
    Likes Received:
    116
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    There was some discussion of the Masamoto FF issues on kkf, consensus seemed to favor that a bunch of seconds Masamoto had sold off got on the market as 1st tier stock, and that it was now fairly safe to by Masamoto from most dealers.
     
  16. phaedrus

    phaedrus

    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    121
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    It's easier to find unicorn horns than a KS right now! Every vendor I can think of has been out of stock for years.
     
  17. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    182
    Exp:
    Chef Emeritus
    You need to see this video.

     
    millionsknives likes this.
  18. millionsknives

    millionsknives

    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes Received:
    367
    Exp:
    Professional Caterer
    WOWWWW that's some gift!
     
  19. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,239
    Likes Received:
    116
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    Why would Masamoto give him 10 KS blades, the VG series that he bashed for FF to bribe a new review, ya why not, but the KS for this fluffernut? I don't get it.
     
  20. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    182
    Exp:
    Chef Emeritus
    Beats me.

    But he sure is lucky. 10 times lucky, that is.
     
    millionsknives likes this.