Marble Rye Commercial size cost effective formula (?)

Discussion in 'Professional Chefs' started by liza, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. liza

    liza

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    I have been rocking out Rye Bread and of course other Artisan breads for awhile and the powers that be have now added Marble Rye to the menu..

    Meanwhile, I have not had experience with Pumpernickle nor have I had any call for 'Marble' Rye in the past.

    Does anyone have any formulas that are cost effective on a professional scale that they could share?

    I can't see folks individually banging out loaves by hand.

    Thoughts?

    Any and all help is appreciated

    (you know how it goes, as soon as things are working well, someone has to go in and screw up the system)
     
  2. thetincook

    thetincook

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    Well, you can make modern style pumpernickle by adding something like 2 molassis and 1.5 caramel color to your regular dough.
     
  3. panini

    panini

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    Hey Liza,

    "I can't see folks individually banging out loaves by hand  ."     What do you mean by this?

    You want to use rye and pump? Easier if you use dark and light rye.

    What types of flour are you using for the Rye. Using any clear flour? Would like to find you a recipe using flours you might have.

    Are you looking for spiral #s 200lbs. or planitary  50 lbs?

    I think my bread binders are here. I will take a look.

    Pan
     
  4. panini

    panini

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    Liza,

    Pump

    12# 8oz.        water

           6oz         caramel color

    15#8oz.        high gluten four

      5#               Rye meal

          9oz.        Rye sour

          8oz.        salt

          8oz.        S=500

          4oz.        Ground caraway

          2oz.        Dry malt

          8oz.        yeast    (wet)

        10oz.       molasses

        10oz.       Honey

    If you want raisin  add   4#8oz.

    Sour

    7#      White Rye

    3#      Medium Rye

    1/2oz.yeast

    4#      starter

    1 gal. water

    starter

    4#      old bread

    1oz.   onion flakes

    I have others but they are a little bit more expensive.. they use clear flour
     
  5. thetincook

    thetincook

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    Old school starter! I'd be tempted to combine the sour and the starter and do a single initial fermentation.

    Are you guys doing a starch wash? First time I tried that, I didn't cook the starch and the bread looked pretty gnarly.
     
  6. liza

    liza

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    Flours on hand:

    light rye

    wheat

    bread

    ap

    LIQUID malt

    32qt Hobart

    and a nitwit assistant that can't tie his own shoes

    Needless to say, I have the rye starter fermenting already and that has been working well.. which obviously has come back to bite me in the butt.

    Couple of questions..

    SD500, I have never used it.. what is it and what is it's purpose?

    Liquid Malt vs. Dry Malt.. do you know if there is a conversion ratio ex; dry vs. fresh yeast and would I have to add water to compensate?

    "Banging out loaves" Meaning do I have aforementioned nitwit individually shape loaves with the 2 doughs or do I dump both into the Hobart THEN portion and shape? That to me makes more sense (and please say yes because I think I have to let nitwit go)

    ****

    I had found one Pumpernickle recipe that called for mashed potatoes and bakers chocolate. Are you familiar?

    Oh and forgive my ignorance by the way, by trade I am a dessert and pastry chef that somehow got shanghaid into the daily bread portion because like a jackass, I said I knew how to do it! But again, never did Marble Rye on a large or small scale for that matter.

    Oh, and remind me to ask you about onion rolls..

    *sigh

    I hate the weekly mgt meetings.
     
  7. liza

    liza

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    I've not done a 'starch' wash. I'm using the Artisan Deck ovens with the steam injection.

    But believe it or not, after shaping, and rising, I score them then hit them with egg white wash (TON of egg whites in house as I do the ice creams and brulees LOL) As soon as they are loaded, I hit them with the steam.. then again after 15min.

    Very shiny and crunchy crust loaves
     
  8. panini

    panini

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    "Old school starter! I'd be tempted to combine the sour and the starter and do a single initial fermentation.  "

    OMG! Old school starter!!!  What was I thinking???? I forgot!!!! The New School method!!!! Rush, Rush,Rush, blow the SOB up with gunpowder and a booster, Run out to text someone,,

    Come back and put the sneakers on, divide and mould then rush those puppies into a too hot proffer, then over to the office to check email and go to ChefTalk to give panini a hard time.

    Throw them in the oven, now it's time for a break, check my texts. Pull em from the oven and douche them in corn starch.

    WHAT??? That bread can't be stale and dry, I just made it yesterday. I'll be right back, I have to check something on the internet.

    I bought a loaf of Calamata  Olive Bread in one of our so called upscale market know for it's Artisian breads.

    I saw it come out of the oven. Took it home, sliced a bit, then had to get my reading glasses to find the olives. This thing looked like chiabatta inside.

    Slice some this morning and it was so dry and old looking I didn't even toast it. 7.95 for duck food. New School? TheTinCook/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif/img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif/img/vbsmilies/smilies/peace.gif

    Liza,

    I'll PM you the recipes or a good NYC onion roll. I don't want Tin to have it./img/vbsmilies/smilies/thumb.gif

    I wouldn't mix the doughs in the mixer.  Since your rye looks good I would scale each.  Then the dark on top of light the size of an envelope then roll them so thst your rye end on the outside.

    I have to go, cakes for the masses going down to 7-11 corp.
     
  9. thetincook

    thetincook

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    All I heard was:



    Hee hee, you're going to give me the business when you pump up your breads with S500?

    Wot's all this talk about proofers and ovens? We of the new school have no time for such old fashioned contrivences. We use bread machines. Scale and press a button. Plenty of time left to frag noobs on teh XBox.

    I called it old school because it uses old bread crumbs to get things going. It's a very old method.

    I don't see too much of a point of doing an intial ferment with the crumbs and onion flakes, because dry onion flakes are pretty sterile, no? I don't think you'd get too much of a  natural levan going there. Also you didn't call for any moisture at that stage. I get a pretty good lactic fermentation going on with my inerja batter in a day or two depending on the temp, using just straight yeast and whatever lactic bacteria are living in the air and regular flour.  I assume something similar would be true for this rye sour.

    PS Who needs an onion roll recipe when you can buy them from Sysco?
     
  10. liza

    liza

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    OK.. you two ain't quite right

    hahahaha

    Meanwhile, already have my old school rye sour/starter that was worked with REAL, brandy new, undehydrated onions.. damned thing works so well I have to beat the beast down every night before I leave or it's all over the walk in!

    I love using it too because I don't have to add any water.. weigh it, dump it in the mixer add the Bread/AP mix and let 'er rip.. dump it, rest it for 10 and if nitwit is off the phone, done texting or out of the bathroom, shape it.. rises in 20 and you're good to go.

    We old schoolers save the dehydrated onions for the real important stuff like the green bean cassaroles.

    I keep telling them that buying the damned Sysco rolls would save us a lot of hearburn.. but speak for yourself Tin.. Panini, I would be honored if you would share your NYC onion roll recipe!