manicotti lasagna

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Got a idea to raw mix chop meat, tomato paste, onion, rocottia & mozzarella and spinach together and stuff into manicotti shells cover it with tomato sauce. Going to cover it with aluminium foil and cook 400 degrees for 60 minutes. Since never done this is the time and temp right?
 
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Make a meat sauce and stuff it into one side of the shell. Mix the Ricotta cheese, parmesan, egg and gran garlic and spinach together and pipe into the other half of that shell. Line the pan with these and top with sauce and mozzarella cheese.
 
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pete

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400°F is a little high. You would probably start to burn your sauce around the edges. I would do 350°F for 60 minutes, covered. Then uncover, and bake 20-30 minutes more to allow the cheese, that you should sprinkle on top, to color a bit.
 
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Pete, anytime my cooks would ask me how long to cook something my answer was " Just until it's done, no longer".....I never wanted them to come back to me and say, You told me to cook it for an hour. This way I could always put the accountability on them....
 

pete

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Pete, anytime my cooks would ask me how long to cook something my answer was " Just until it's done, no longer".....I never wanted them to come back to me and say, You told me to cook it for an hour. This way I could always put the accountability on them....
That is generally my reply when it comes to cooks working underneath me, although I will give them rough guidelines, but when it comes to non-professionals, that I have no idea what their skill level is I try to always give times. And I guess I should probably add that those are just guidelines and to start checking after about 2/3's of the given time as there are a number of things that influence the time.
 
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I also add about a cup of water of course used to clean out tomato sauce container. Last time I made these cheese burger style found the water is needed to steam the shells. I for time saving mixed olive oil into the patse and cooked in microwave for 3 minutes on high to get out that raw flavor.

Cheese burger style was a mix of raw chop meat, tomato paste, onion and cheddar cheese stuffed into the shells and covered in cheddar cheese sauce.
 
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pete

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I also add about a cup of water of course used to clean out tomato sauce container. Last time I made these cheese burger style found the water is needed to steam the shells. I for time saving mixed olive oil into the patse and cooked in microwave for 3 minutes on high to get out that raw flavor.

Cheese burger style was a mix of raw chop meat, tomato paste, onion and cheddar cheese stuffed into the shells and covered in cheddar cheese sauce.
Are you saying that you don't cook the manicotti shells prior to stuffing and baking?
 
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Yes they are uncooked. I figure they will steam in the pan, why i cover it to hold in the moisture. Never tried to stuff a soft shell must be hard
 
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First, there are two keys to stuffing manicotti shells....
Number one, you only cook them until they're a fairly firm al dente about three-quarters of the way cooked .
They're flexible but they're not mushy.
The second is after cooking, make sure you rinse well. If you don't do this they stick together
and they're a biitch to stuff.

Likewise there is one major consideration as far as I'm concerned, in how long to cook
a pasta dish or casserole....
Whether you're using raw meat, or if everything is precooked.
In the first scenario you need to cook it long enough, usually about an hour to bring the
internal temperature of the meat up to safe temperature.
The second scenario is basically a heat-through situation....typically 30 to 45 minutes depending on whether it was coming from room temperature or from refrigerated status, and the thickness of the dish can make a difference too.
 
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So you saying you don't apprve of my method. I cooked raw pasta in the sauce many times like shells or spaghetti specialy in a pressure cooker. I find the pasta picks up the flavor more than boiling it in water, also saves a pot . Yes you need to add more water making the sauce kind of runny but pasta soaks it up and starch it releases thickens it right back up. Isn't the no boil lasagne pasta kind of what this is, my perfect cooker uses them just have to let them sit in hot water for 5 minutes to soften. I picked 400 for 60 minutes so sauce heats up enough to bake/boil the beef and pasta.
 

pete

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I'm not saying that I don't approve. You are welcome to cook your food anyway you want, but doing it your way leads to overly mushy pasta with virtually no texture to it. Boiling your pasta whether in water, or in sauce helps to set the starch, giving you a firmer texture. If you don't believe me try an experiment and cook pasta in boiling water and cook some pasta in water well below a boil and see which one has the better texture. It will be the one done in boiling water.

Also stuffing your shells with a raw meat mixture is going to make for an overly greasy/oily final dish. It would be much improved by browning off your meat first, letting it cool slightly, then mixing with the other ingredients and stuffing your shells.

Yes, both of these methods increase your workload, but they are going to improve your dish dramatically.
 
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That is how i always made lasaga, pre cook everything and then assemble this was just another way and never worked with manicotti shells before. I always bought them already stuffed with cheese but to tell the truth the grease isn't bad just comes down to type chop meat used.
 
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I too, am not saying I dont approve, I have never stuffed uncooked
pasta. I do it as pete described, browning, draining, making a thick
filling, cooling then stuffing. Thats with ground meats.
Or I stuff with 3 cheese mixture, and integrate with meat-rich sauce.
Your way sounds like it might work, but I think our way might integrate better.
 
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I'm following this thread with interest, as I have stuffed manicotti shells dry for years and years.
Also made lasagna by the 100's of hotel pans, never cooking the pasta first.
The key is adding more liquid but not enough to overcook the pasta.
Never tried it with spaghetti, rigatoni, but works well with those large sea shells, Manicotti, and Penne.
 

pete

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In the past, when I've had to do large amounts of lasagna I've done it without precooking, but I always found that the pasta always came out too mushy that way. I think that you end up with a much better product when you precook the noodles. That being said, if I've got 20-40 pans of lasagna to make I will still take that shortcut, because I usually don' have the time but I prefer the product when made properly.
 
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Im finding this of interest as well ChefRoss.
If done properly manicotti shells aren't that hard to stuff.
Same with the large conch shells.
However there is a bit smaller manicotti style noodle that's large enough to stuff but
I can't remember the name of it. Its thinner, a lot cheaper, but harder to stuff because of the thin walls.
But it might lend itself very well to the stuff uncooked method.
 
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I find myself boiling the lasagna noodles 1/2 to 3/4 of the way for home use. I never boiled Manicotti or Lasagna noodles for my Cafe's. I did make sure I had a good amount of sauce on the bottom of the 2" Hotel pans when making the dish. I do always boil my Ziti noodles for Baked Ziti. I also never made any of these using raw meat and never will....Just Sayin'....ChefBillyB
 
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