Kosher

Discussion in 'Professional Pastry Chefs' started by wizcat3, Sep 18, 2003.

  1. wizcat3

    wizcat3

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    I have an interview tomorrow with a Kosher restaurant and I would like to know about the ingredients to use for pastries. My husband is Jewish but cannot tell me anything. I dont have too much time tonite to investigate things like chocolate and the use of butter and etc. Id like to sound intelligent. I fully unlderstand the dairy thing. Kosher restauraant = no dairy. Tell me about that if you know. What about chocolate. can I use cocoberry for example? How do I make cakes? Just think about this and iI have questions. Thanks for your help.
     
  2. momoreg

    momoreg

    Messages:
    2,938
    Likes Received:
    11
    Exp:
    Professional Pastry Chef
    Kosher doesn't necessarily mean no dairy. If the restaurant doesn't serve meat, then dairy is permitted. Most kosher restaurants will be non-dairy, however, as you were assuming.

    Depending on how strictly supervised the restaurant is, there will be certain kosher products that you can use, and others that may not be suitable. There are lots of dark chocolates that are kosher, and of course, milk chocolates will not work in a meat restaurant. Find out whether it's a meat or dairy kitchen. If it's dairy, the rules will be much easier to deal with.

    I not only grew up kosher, but also worked in a kosher restaurant, so I hope I can answer any other questions you have.
     
  3. mirepoix man

    mirepoix man

    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    10
    Working kosher is not that difficult. There are some fundamental rules that apply to ingredients....such as an emphasis that they are in fact kosher "certified". You might try doing a search on the Orthodox Union of Rabbis, which is probably the majot kosher certification body in the USA. One important rule to know is that meat and milk can not be served at the same meal. However, based on experience, you can substitute "Coffee Rich", a none dairy creamer when making creme anglaise or creme caramel. There are some intracacies as well within the world of kosher, and chances are if you are working in a strictly kosher establishment, there will be a "MASHGIACH", or kosher supervisor who will guide you. Good luck!
     
  4. wizcat3

    wizcat3

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    well, the first day went very well. Yes they are certified Kosher and have a Rabbis there 100% of the time. I dont think Im going to have a hard time without cream or milk, but butter, im not really sure. Margarine? I need to do some research to find great products. The Chef is great and Im sure knows the best products. I will inquire anyway. Soooooo Butter substitutes anyone. This is a going to be a great job. Im looking forward to the future.
     
  5. mezzaluna

    mezzaluna

    Messages:
    9,204
    Likes Received:
    67
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    A toast to your new job: L'Chaim! :beer:

    Those who work with limitations on ingredients usually become artful at substituting or finding new recipes. I hope you enjoy your new job.

    Mezzaluna
     
  6. m brown

    m brown

    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Exp:
    Professional Pastry Chef
    margarine has more moisture than butter and shortening has less moisture, i would suggest using a blend of both!
    I often use a blend of sweetex and butter for pie dough and puff dough.
    for butter cream, i would suggest you use a blend of 75% margarine and 25% high ratio shortening.
    for cookies and the like you can go either way or a blend, this will be up to you, your clients taste buds and your chef.

    Have a great time and a sweet new year!
    :bounce:
     
  7. wizcat3

    wizcat3

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    Thanks to all of you for your recommendations. I will look into all of them:

    M brown, I have some questions about what you said about margarine and etc.
    What is a high ratio shortening?
    What is sweetex L( shortening or margarine?

    Is that why my butter cream broke? Or, old whole eggs, or the margarine I used, or the fact that the frig did not get it cold enough???

    Another thing, I made a pastry cr with a qt of coffee rich and about 60g flour (generaly I use pcp) and 10 eggs. I had to add more flour via a bechamel like techique. It finally worked, but not without stress. Does it really take that much flour?

    Knowing brand names may be something I need to ask you who might know. It would spare me time and disaster. I nont like failures.

    Sorry, I have lots of questions. But everything will be great soon as I figure out these small but impt things. Thanks


    :):) :) :)
     
  8. m brown

    m brown

    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Exp:
    Professional Pastry Chef
    I am going to go with the margarine made your bc break. sweetex is a brand name for hi ratio shortening. I like it because it does not have a smell, colour or flavor and it pulls high ratio formulas together beautifully.

    also, if the bc is too warm it will tend to break, a few min in the deep freeze helps, but you have to learn the limits of your manipulation of product, this will come with time.

    how are you making bc, meringue, shortenig and powder sugar, custard or pate a bombe?
     
  9. momoreg

    momoreg

    Messages:
    2,938
    Likes Received:
    11
    Exp:
    Professional Pastry Chef
    Sometimes buttercream will break if it's too cold also.

    As for your pastry crm, I can't imagine why you would have needed more flour than usual. My recipe, which uses cornstarch, converted perfectly with coffee rich. But I did reduce the sugar by about 10%.
     
  10. m brown

    m brown

    Messages:
    1,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Exp:
    Professional Pastry Chef
    before last year i would never have known you should temper your butter cream with cold and warm to get the just right consistancy.

    if it's too cold, it looks like cottage cheese if it is too warm it looks like egg dorp soup!
    when it is just right it is light and fluffy.:bounce:
     
  11. wizcat3

    wizcat3

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    Hi, Im back and am working at the restaurant and having an ok time. the margarine vs butter is coming up somewhat of a problem, but on the otherhand, there is some good also. You wouldnt believe that "whipped topping" can have a long shelf life. Not that u can replace H Cr, but its not too bad of a sub. Just dont boil it. I Have some other issues..To make a butter carmel))))) wow. the margarine really leached. I drained it and then started with the nuts again with a dry carmel. Then dipped it in choc. Turned out great Then I made a oh well I better send this to you so I dont get booted. I will finish after I send this to you all.
     
  12. wizcat3

    wizcat3

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    I made a orange/raisen cake with margarine and it was a disaster. I cooked it almost 1 hour at 350; I almost think I have done something wrong. This is an old family recepe that always works w butter. It took more than an hr to burn.. My question is that this margarain is tempermental and just decides to leach. Whats going on. What is with this margarine thing. Sometime it leaches and other times it doesnt. This whole thing isnt a real big thing, but I dont like failrues as this is a high volume restaurant. I am the olly one in the kitchen. I have no time for failures. Oh I did a complete new Petit Four plate today. Whew, Good thing I had a helper as this would never would have happened Im on my own, this coming week. They do a real high volume. !000 to 1600. Thats alot of desserts. Hope I can do it. No real serious help.
     
  13. momoreg

    momoreg

    Messages:
    2,938
    Likes Received:
    11
    Exp:
    Professional Pastry Chef
    Wizcat, You might consider trying other margarines. They can vary widely in terms of moisture content, which may cause separation in those with higher water content.
     
  14. wizcat3

    wizcat3

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    Hi everyone, things are going well at the restaurant, after going through the usual things you have to know about the restaurant, old menu, and the history for the holidays. Ive really been busy and have been working long hrs. The margarine and no dairy thing is not bad at all. Im not having trouble there at all. Pectin and gelatine I certainly do miss. I hope to figure this out after Thanksgiving when I have a slow down. Could use some advice on that. I can make alot of real nice specials if I had something to set ithe mousse and etc. Hope you all have a nice Thanksgiving. I'll be working. Wiz