Knife Sharpening

Discussion in 'Professional Chefs' started by turismo374, May 15, 2014.

  1. turismo374

    turismo374

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    Hey guys I really need some help.... so I have a Misono UX10 and i just feel like its never as sharp as it should be, I feel like every time I use someone elses knife it is much sharper than mine.  I use a 1000 grit stone followed by a 4000 grit stone, finish on a 6000 grit finishing stone and than hit it on a leather strop.  It seems sharp right after I do the paper test and everything but in the kitchen its not as sharp as I want it to be.  What am I doing wrong??? It seems like my edge is gone right away should i look at other knives??  I have had the knife for over 3 years its just very frustrating
     
  2. redbeerd cantu

    redbeerd cantu

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    How are you transporting the knife? Do you have a knife guard on it? Do you put it in a roll?

    It would be hard to imagine that the paper test is satisfactory (if it truly is satisfactory) and then doesn't perform in generally the same manner in the kitchen?

    What are you cutting at work?  Bone/gristle?

    One of the above can affect the blade between putting it to the stone and putting it to the product.
     
  3. mikael

    mikael

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    Do you thin your knife?

    A knife that haven't been thinned can have a sharp edge but cut really bad.
    And a properly thinned knife can cut pretty good even if it's not as sharp as it can be.

    Mikael
     
  4. mikael

    mikael

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    I reread your post. And noticed a few things.

    Is the 1000 grit stone your coarsest grit stone?

    If it is then I think that might be your problem. It can be frustrating trying to make a new edge with such a high grit.

    And you might be raising your edge when sharpening trying to create a burr. So after 3 years of inprober sharpening your edge is pretty bad.

    So either you should get a coarser stone. thin your knife and make a new edge or sent it off to a good sharpener who knows what he's doing.

    Mikael
     
  5. turismo374

    turismo374

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    I mainly cut vegetables and i keep it in a wooden Knife guard and yes the 1000 grit is my coarsest stone.  I heard the UX 10  requires a very asymmetrical bevel.  I think I need to thin the blade I think that is the problem, should I just get a coarser grit stone and thin down the blade?
     
  6. mikael

    mikael

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    That's my best bet.

    Buy a coarse stone. Watch a few YouTube videos on the subject. Make sure youre stones are flat and start thinning :)

    Let me know how it went.. If you have any questions on the subject don't hesitate to ask me

    Mikael
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  7. turismo374

    turismo374

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    I cant use my 1000 grit to thin the blade?  
     
  8. mikael

    mikael

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    Well you can. but it's going to take a long time.
     
  9. tweakz

    tweakz

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    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
  10. turismo374

    turismo374

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    So I really worked on it tonight.  I should have taken photos of the knife before and after but I gave it a shot.  I thinned down the blade and it looked noticeably better much more like a V shape.  I than worked on the edge with my 1000 grit followed by my 4000 and my 6000 finishing stone followed by my leather strop.  I wont know for sure until I actually use it at work on tuesday but the knifes edge feels considerably sharper.  I held a piece of paper with my free hand and effortlessly sliced right through it,  I rested a ripe tomato on my counter and with no pressure glided the knife into it and it sliced right through.  Hopefully I see a nice difference at work and the edge lasts longer.  
     
  11. mikael

    mikael

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    Nice work let us know how you like it.

    So did you get a coarse stone?

    I had a similar experience when I learned about tthinning. It felt like having a different knife.

    Well enjoy your knife
    Mikael
     
  12. turismo374

    turismo374

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    I was a little nervous to use a coarse stone so I used my 1000 grit, it took longer to do but I think it came out good.
     
  13. turismo374

    turismo374

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    Ok so I went back to work today and used my knife and I still dont think it is as sharp as I want it to be.  It is sharper than it was but I think I need to thin the blade more maybe I need the coarse stone.  Does the sharpness of the knife have anything to do with stuff sticking to the knife???  I cut a few pounds of butter and it doesnt go through very easily and the butter gets stuck to the knife and I try someone elses knife and it does not have that problem.  Also when cutting carrots its a but difficult to cut through it cleanly, same thing with fennel.  I had to dice some onion and I slice into the onion just fine but It doesnt glide right through like I want it seems to get stuck a bit and I have to wiggle it out but when I go to dice it everything is fine, I think I need o thin the blade more.... thoughts 
     
  14. redbeerd cantu

    redbeerd cantu

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    If the blade won't cut through butter, then you might not have a good angle when you're working the blade.

    Even if it's frozen, a decent blade can work through butter relatively easily.

    There are ways to implement objects to help you maintain a proper angle.  I've seen vid of people using a matchbook under the blade to hold a proper angle while the blade is being passed over the stones.
     
  15. kartman35

    kartman35

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    Try stopping after your 4k stone.  6k and then a strop is great for sushi and slicing paper but will lack the tooth you want to perform most kitchen tasks.

    Make sure you deburr completely and don't polish any more than your 4k.  In fact, you might try experimenting with how your blade goes through tomatoes after 1k, after 4k and after 6k and after stropping.

    A stainless knife that cuts paper and shaves is good for cutting paper and shaving...One that cuts food well will fail your paper tests every time.

    Happy Happy
     
  16. mikael

    mikael

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    wel if your first thinning session helpet with your knives performance. Then im sure thats your problem. and you need to thin it further.

    over time when sharpening your knife it will end up looking like this
    and since you have been frustratet with your knifes performance im sure you have sped up the thickening with repeated sharpening.

    my best bet is thats your problem.

    So thinning. you asked if you need a coarser stone. i'd recomend it. you'll need one for bevel setting and maintenance.

    but for major thinning i actually don't use a stone. i'll use it for maintenance and the occasinal chip in blades. but for thinning I use wet n dry sandpaper.

    i actually have to do some thinning myself. and i expect to do it tomorrow or sunday. i'll make sure to take some Pictures and sent them to you

    Mikael
     
  17. mhpr262

    mhpr262

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    Turismo, I think your problem is a wire edge, also known as a incompletely removed burr.

    After you have gone through the stones and used the strop clean the blade thoroughly. Then pull the edge of the blade gently through some medium hard wood or a real wine bottle cork. If the nick left by the edge is slightly dark/smudged looking you had a burr left. Repeat until the little nick is left totally clean (obviously works best with light colored wood)

    Not wanting to knock this forum, but if you really want to dig into this matter you might look at www.kitchenknifeforums.com , there are some real pros (custom knife makers, among others) on there. This forum is more about cooking.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  18. lennyd

    lennyd

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    Knock knock could you mean that way too commercial forum that blade mag picked up and now sends out way to much advertising emails lmao

    Boy do I miss foodieforums :(
     
  19. lennyd

    lennyd

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    On topic it does sound like the issue is either a burr/wire, too thick behind the edge or possibly that the angles change along the length of the blade.

    I have also used wet paper when needed, but am considering adding a coarse stone add it's just easier.

    One last thought is if the edge is sharp enough to drop through tomatoes or paper when first sharpened but then feels dull after cutting on the board I believe there is a good chance your dealing with a wire, and suggest trying to deal with removing it before getting too far into thinning equipment etc. You can also get a micrometer and measure just behind the edge and this can help determine if you may need to plan on a serious thinning of the blade, but from what your saying so far that doesn't seem to be your problem.
     
  20. jwjohnson

    jwjohnson

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    Greetings,

    I believe a good stropping will cure your ails. (Take that as you will/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif). I have a UX10 and a plethora of Western/European and Asian knives. What I am about to type here will offend many of my peers. I have had my knives professionally sharpened, I have done the whetstone, oil stone/diamond and on and on myself. Let me say my knife is the extension of my hand and no one touches any of them. I am 47 years old and find that honing and sharpening can be time consuming at times. I have always been against electric sharpeners. I finally broke down and bought the Chef'sChoice  1520 http://www.edgecraft.com/page2a_m1520.html.

    Yes I put my UX10 through this machine, I have been brow beat and condemned for such a practice. However, it is my money, right? I want to say that this sharpener has put an edge on all my knives so perfectly I can shave my arm hair. I know that over time it will wear down my knife, but hey I buy a new one every year out of boredom and the intrigue of something new.

    Just some thoughts.

    Let the hate begin.

    You are blessed!
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014