Keeping your restaurant and staff during the global crisis

nicko

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Here in Chicago the governor has closed all restaurant and bars for dine in. Restaurants are allowed to provide pickup and delivery options which is helping to keep restaurants afloat. However fine dining restaurants like Alinea who employee many people have no option and it is has been reported that the restaurant group has had to refund over 300,000 in Tok reservations.

My wife and I are opting instead of hoarding food from the grocery stores to support our local restaurants and purchase carry out / take away. I sincerely hope that all of the culinary professionals here are able to keep their restaurants going to some degree and that people will see the need to support their local restaurants. This discussion thread is to discuss ideas of how your keeping your restaurant and staff during this challenging time.
 
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My wife and I are opting instead of hoarding food from the grocery stores to support our local restaurants and purchase carry out / take away.
That suggestion has been made locally here on social media. Everybody is encouraged to purchase take-out twice a week.

Truly sad though is that everyone prepped for St.Patrick's day before the closings were ordered. One pub/restaurant is giving away corned beef and cabbage dinners until they run out. Hopefully customers will want Guinness to go with it.

Another said that they are stuck with 400 lbs of corned beef.
 
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I wish I had good ideas to offer. There's been no coherent Federal response, just a patchwork array of state and local efforts. In Bozeman, MT where I live there's been little change in operations (circa 3.17.2020, natch). The Walmart store is reportedly changing from 24/7 to 8 am to 10 pm I think and grocery stores are slightly curtailing hours of operations but so far I haven't seen restaurant hours changing but it will likely happen.
 
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Okay, all the restaurants in Bozeman have been ordered closed through March 24th. This order doesn't apply to the cafe at MSU since it's the only source of meals for the students.
 
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Once again we have people (the government) telling privately owned business what to do and what's best for them without any first hand knowledge of how it will affect things. It's easy to sign a piece of paper and tell all the bars and restaurants to close or try and survive on take out orders but in reality a large portion of workers will be laid off and many businesses will be closed forever.

I would think more people getting exposed to build antibodies would be a good thing. We can't close down the world every year for half of it because some people may die. And I do not see any of the data to support this being more deadly than the flu. You can look up official flu statistics and extrapolate potential numbers for covid-19. I know there is a lot of unknown but the simple fact that it is not killing off babies, young kids, pregnant women or 20-30's plus being admitted that an estimated 80% will self resolve just does not support the mania. Until there is evidence presented of perfectly healthy people and children without any preexisting conditions or diseases dropping dead, I will keep an objective look at this all.

All we will get from this several months from now is a lot of unemployed people, closed businesses, a recession and the nation's children behind in schooling even more and the politicians from all sides will pat themselves on the back and go back to being useless.

I would love to support small business by going out several times a week but I simply cannot afford it, as I am sure many others are in the same position. I just hope we as an industry and survive this. One reason I went into culinary was because I always thought I would have a job and thankfully I still do but I feel for all the people out there who are not as fortunate.
 
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By your numbers, the 20% that can't self-resolve (due to advanced age, pre-existing conditions such as diabetes, or a compromised immune system - such as those recovering from chemo) can't be treated at a hospital because those numbers would overwhelm the hospitals and medical facilities and as a result, die. I hope you have no loved ones in those categories because if you do, you should say good bye to them now.
 

chefpeon

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Joined Jun 15, 2006
Seoul Food Seoul Food , are you an epidemiologist? Epidemiologists do not share your opinion that this is no big deal. Perhaps you'd like to go on an epidemiologist's forum and share your opinion. Meanwhile, I don't think sharing your "nothing-to-see-here" rhetoric is very responsible. Our industry is going to suffer the fallout from this for years and I share your frustration in that regard. But I think listening to the people who REALLY know what they're talking about and keeping people safe is our first priority.
 
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Once again we have people (the government) telling privately owned business what to do and what's best for them without any first hand knowledge of how it will affect things. It's easy to sign a piece of paper and tell all the bars and restaurants to close or try and survive on take out orders but in reality a large portion of workers will be laid off and many businesses will be closed forever.

I would think more people getting exposed to build antibodies would be a good thing. We can't close down the world every year for half of it because some people may die. And I do not see any of the data to support this being more deadly than the flu. You can look up official flu statistics and extrapolate potential numbers for covid-19. I know there is a lot of unknown but the simple fact that it is not killing off babies, young kids, pregnant women or 20-30's plus being admitted that an estimated 80% will self resolve just does not support the mania. Until there is evidence presented of perfectly healthy people and children without any preexisting conditions or diseases dropping dead, I will keep an objective look at this all.

All we will get from this several months from now is a lot of unemployed people, closed businesses, a recession and the nation's children behind in schooling even more and the politicians from all sides will pat themselves on the back and go back to being useless.

I would love to support small business by going out several times a week but I simply cannot afford it, as I am sure many others are in the same position. I just hope we as an industry and survive this. One reason I went into culinary was because I always thought I would have a job and thankfully I still do but I feel for all the people out there who are not as fortunate.
What an absolute joke of a post.

Explain to me where you get your information from, and also where you got your medical degree or advanced biology/virology/epidemiology degree? You're throwing a lot of info out there that most (indeed, every one that I've heard/read) experts disagree with.

The danger isn't just to one's self, the danger is spreading it around a society to people who may not be able to fight of the virus on their own (i.e. immunocompromised people, the elderly). A person may show only mild or no symptoms and still transmit it to a large number of people.

Here in the US, testing started late and is, to my understanding, still woefully inadequate. So while the number might look "low" to someone like yourself, the reality is there are likely thousands upon thousands of cases not being tested for and/or reported. If those undertested or asymptomatic people expose themselves to others, then the numbers go up exponentially from there. I certainly hope no one you know is in a vulnerable condition and catches the virus.

The reason this is probably going to be worse than the flu is that there currently is no vaccine, and the virus spreads easier than the flu. And while you are correct (at least according to the current statistics) that the novel coronavirus has a relatively low death rate (compared to things like ebola, etc) it is still higher than the flu. Even at a 1% death rate, that is 10x more deadly than the flu (0.1% death rate for flu). And I will further stipulate that the overall death % is likely to fall even more, since there is VAST under-reporting and under-testing currently in the US.

The bottom line is, if we do the right things right now, then in 6-12 months the pandemic might look "overblown" or whatever word you choose. But it's the chicken and the egg...was the outbreak not a big deal because the media overblew it and caused a panic, or was it "not a big deal" because the country locked down and stemmed the bleeding. We may never know, even with the benefit of hindsight, but I'd rather we be cautious and save lives than be wrong and make it worse.
 
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I think we're doing the right thing to close public spaces even if it causes some pain- better that than to see the US go down like Italy. That said, if the govt is forcing businesses to close then the govt (and by that I mean We the People) should help to keep those businesses afloat. That will mean a 'bailout' of some kind. I don't see it as a moral hazard issue as the restaurants are complying for the public good. It's only right that we use every fiscal tool to keep things working. What is the point of civilization if it doesn't pull together to help everyone when it's needed most?
 
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What an absolute joke of a post.

Explain to me where you get your information from, and also where you got your medical degree or advanced biology/virology/epidemiology degree? You're throwing a lot of info out there that most (indeed, every one that I've heard/read) experts disagree with.

The danger isn't just to one's self, the danger is spreading it around a society to people who may not be able to fight of the virus on their own (i.e. immunocompromised people, the elderly). A person may show only mild or no symptoms and still transmit it to a large number of people.

Here in the US, testing started late and is, to my understanding, still woefully inadequate. So while the number might look "low" to someone like yourself, the reality is there are likely thousands upon thousands of cases not being tested for and/or reported. If those undertested or asymptomatic people expose themselves to others, then the numbers go up exponentially from there. I certainly hope no one you know is in a vulnerable condition and catches the virus.

The reason this is probably going to be worse than the flu is that there currently is no vaccine, and the virus spreads easier than the flu. And while you are correct (at least according to the current statistics) that the novel coronavirus has a relatively low death rate (compared to things like ebola, etc) it is still higher than the flu. Even at a 1% death rate, that is 10x more deadly than the flu (0.1% death rate for flu). And I will further stipulate that the overall death % is likely to fall even more, since there is VAST under-reporting and under-testing currently in the US.

The bottom line is, if we do the right things right now, then in 6-12 months the pandemic might look "overblown" or whatever word you choose. But it's the chicken and the egg...was the outbreak not a big deal because the media overblew it and caused a panic, or was it "not a big deal" because the country locked down and stemmed the bleeding. We may never know, even with the benefit of hindsight, but I'd rather we be cautious and save lives than be wrong and make it worse.
You're welcome to your opinion as am I but you have no data to back up your claims. The reasons you are stating for avoidance to demographics at risk are the exact same people who would be in the same position during any flu season. Not having a vaccine is not the deciding factor when you consider how many people do not get shots each year on top of the number of cases that the vaccine was not effective against. You are yourself stating that there are many more cases out there than reported which would reduce your imaginary number of death rate even lower. The simple fat of the matter is even if people in danger demographics are more likely to die from complications from covid-19, there is still a huge portion of the population that have not been showing up in the fatalities. Simply being more deadly to one group does not make the disease overall more deadly. The data just does not support the reaction currently and anyone with any level of independent critical thinking can see that. If this is indeed so bad then show us the data supporting that, we can't just grind the world to a halt and instill fear in the world simply because it "may" get worse. It's an impossible task because there will be no way to quantify how much of an impact these shut downs had, and the majority of people that contracted it without complications will have better immune systems. If you don't have a problem with governments shutting down everyone's lives and imposing unilateral mandates that is up to you.
 
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By your numbers, the 20% that can't self-resolve (due to advanced age, pre-existing conditions such as diabetes, or a compromised immune system - such as those recovering from chemo) can't be treated at a hospital because those numbers would overwhelm the hospitals and medical facilities and as a result, die. I hope you have no loved ones in those categories because if you do, you should say good bye to them now.
Two issues there. One, these are the same people who would be in similar circumstances any flu season. Two, if people (social media, news, ect) didn't blow this so out of proportion all day every day people who really have no risk of dying from this wouldn't be flooding the health care systems.
 
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Seoul Food Seoul Food , are you an epidemiologist? Epidemiologists do not share your opinion that this is no big deal. Perhaps you'd like to go on an epidemiologist's forum and share your opinion. Meanwhile, I don't think sharing your "nothing-to-see-here" rhetoric is very responsible. Our industry is going to suffer the fallout from this for years and I share your frustration in that regard. But I think listening to the people who REALLY know what they're talking about and keeping people safe is our first priority.
I never claimed to be one. I am stating that in my opinion this is a vast overreaction and overreach to a mild problem. All I am asking for is more data, we are making huge long lasting decisions based on what we think may or may not happen to something we don't have a lot of data on. What I believe is irresponsible is just blindly assuming we are being fed nothing but the truth and to not think on our own. They shut everything down here for ONE confirmed case that was later admitted to be a community transfer. So for weeks everyone was going about their business and people were magically not dropping dead on the streets. Is it a real risk for certain demographics? Yes. Is it unfortunate when anyone dies from this? Yes. But the fact is based on data you can easily access yourself without being told from a new station is that as of now the flu is still more deadly and no one bats an eye each year about that. Will covid-19 be more deadly in a year when numbers are being crunched? Maybe, but we need to expect more from ourselves and our government than just having these blanket reactions to everything.
 

chefpeon

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Joined Jun 15, 2006
It will be interesting to come back to this post in a few months. Hope you don't have to eat crow, but perhaps you should research some ways to cook it.
 
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If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not stating that my position will never change or that my opinion is the final word, only the issues of wanting more data and currently viewing the reaction versus the reality to be disproportionate. I have many elderly family and would not want them to get sick obviously, I just think we all can have an opinion and shutting down any questions that reference the other implications (other than health) resulting in this is not a good way for open discourse.
 

chefpeon

Kitchen Dork
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Joined Jun 15, 2006
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not stating that my position will never change or that my opinion is the final word, only the issues of wanting more data and currently viewing the reaction versus the reality to be disproportionate. I have many elderly family and would not want them to get sick obviously, I just think we all can have an opinion and shutting down any questions that reference the other implications (other than health) resulting in this is not a good way for open discourse.
Yeah, except you seem to be rejecting and discounting the reports and advice of EXPERTS in their fields to make your points. I don't know exactly what it is that YOU'RE reading, but everything I'm reading points to the fact that your opinions could be based on what the fringe element wants you to believe.
 
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Just because a professional in a given field states something as fact doesn't make it so. There are thousands of deaths each year from misdiagnosis from your "experts". Again you state that everything you believe and read/hear is the gospel and anything contradictory to that is flat out wrong. Unlike you I never stated that you were wrong and I was right, and again you aren't even referencing any data. You can look up the information yourself from the CDC, WHO and various other organizations compiling this data. Statistically the numbers do not justify the reaction as of yet. I actually work in elder care here in NY and have family that are medial professionals in hospitals as we speak. They are dealing with it every day and not seeing the doom and gloom that is being pushed on us. The biggest concern is going to be the lack of workers and medical supplies as we go into this. There is no new alarming rate of kids or young healthy adults contracting this and dying. So once again unless you and point to some compelling data based evidence of this happening, then if one looks at past pandemics we have faced you can draw your own conclusions about how severe it is.
 

chefpeon

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Joined Jun 15, 2006
Wow dude. Why is it that you think you're right and everyone else, including the epidemiologists that are sounding the alarms about this (because there is NO leadership or game plan at the federal level), is mistaken? Again, I would say you need to hop on to an epidemiologist's forum and set them straight. I'm sure they'll listen to you. So do you think this is the ultimate prank on the world by disgruntled scientists? Do you even see what is happening in Italy? Your rhetoric, truly, is totally offensive and irresponsible. It doesn't belong here, and it doesn't belong anywhere.
 
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Wow dude. Why is it that you think you're right and everyone else, including the epidemiologists that are sounding the alarms about this (because there is NO leadership or game plan at the federal level), is mistaken? Again, I would say you need to hop on to an epidemiologist's forum and set them straight. I'm sure they'll listen to you. So do you think this is the ultimate prank on the world by disgruntled scientists? Do you even see what is happening in Italy? Your rhetoric, truly, is totally offensive and irresponsible. It doesn't belong here, and it doesn't belong anywhere.
You can't have it both ways. You can't say there is no leadership at the Federal level when they are doing daily briefings with your beloved "experts" and then say to believe all the experts. You can't cite Italy as some magic model we should be looking at for comparison to the US without taking into account the variables going on in Italy, all the while completely ignoring the data from places like Japan and South Korea because it doesn't fit your doom and gloom attitude. Since you want to keep using Italy as some magic example, it along with China are two countries that put into place mandatory shut downs and forcing people home. Guess what?> They have the highest deaths and mortality percentages currently. No one is claiming this is a prank, only a over reaction to a possible issues touted by the same people who's job it is to oversee this type of thing. So before you go around with your high and mighty attitude trying to put down anyone with a differing opinion than yours, why don't you cite some ACTUAL DATA that states CONCLUSIVELY that millions of people are going to die if we don't shut down the whole world and give over unprecedented powers to governments and agencies. If at that time you can produce such data I would be more than happy to debate these points with you but I wont' debate your "feelings" on the matter. In the end I may be wrong but the truly offensive and irresponsible thing is your totalitarian outlook on differing opnions.
 
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This discussion thread is to discuss ideas of how your keeping your restaurant and staff during this challenging time.
This thread has gone far far far sideways from the original intent. I would suggest taking deep breaths and looking for solutions rather than espousing personal points of view and "right". Offer restaurant deep cleaning hours to all staff that would wish to participate. Doing this would also make good use of the previously pulled out soap boxes that some responders jumped on.
 
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