Kamikoto knives

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by realbkw, Dec 30, 2016.

  1. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    289
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    Thanks for the review, @KenOfPortland . I hope you'll update us about these knives over the next year or so: it'll be interesting to learn what they're like after many cutting and sharpening sessions.
     
  2. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

    Messages:
    2,205
    Likes Received:
    289
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    Rick, I've said it before: the reviews (the honest ones, I mean) all cover two issues:

    1. The company is in China and uses deceptive practices to get buyers to think they're getting high-end Japanese goods; furthermore, return policies are such as to make it effectively impossible to undo one's purchasing mistake.

    2. Out-of-box sharpness, fit-and-finish, and preliminary impressions of steel quality and hardness.

    I would like to see a growing database of knife brands and models that includes this information, but also the all-important issues attendant on extended use in a kitchen, and this last we do not have for Kamikoto. I'm not expecting great things, but I'm interested.
     
    brianshaw likes this.
  3. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    165
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    I number of reviewers commented on how soft the steel is and that it doesn't hold an edge, and of course soft steel automatically = poor edge retention. Also that they are heavy. We also know these are very asymmetric but not real single-bevel. If I looked through all 300+ 1 star Amazon reviews I might find out how thick behind the edge, but I feel there is already enough amo here.

    Not sure what sort of data base you'd like to see or where it is to grow from, but seems to me the best thing for all is that the current 300+ 1 star reviews will be enough to discourage further purchases of Kamikoto.

    As far as Cheftalk, we already know quite a number of shills come here and are given the chance to play fast and loose for a while. On KKK these are called out immediately and banned.
     
    harrisonh likes this.
  4. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    KenofPortland doesn’t sound like a shill. He presented a reasonably decent review based on his real-world experience.

    I appreciated hearing a real buyers experience. That, plus all of the other shill and 1-star reviews is interesting. It’s not in anyone’s best interest to shut him up, discredit his opinion, or drive him away from this site.

    Obviously this isn’t the knife brand for many of us. But that shouldn’t mean others can‘t express their opinions or experiences.

    It seems like for every shill on this forum there are two bullies.
     
  5. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    165
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    Brian, where did anyone say Ken was a shill? And funny, I don't see the bullies. But to complete your final statement, there are also fortunately only a very tiny number here full of BS.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  6. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Well from thread context it sure sounds like someone may have been implying that. If that wasn’t your intention, or anyone else’s, then accept my apology.

    ... and you are certainly welcome to your opinion who is “full of BS”, as is anyone else. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  7. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    165
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    BS aside, to repeat what others have said in this post, there is nothing much inciteful to be gained by using the knives of a hoaky Chinese cheap knife manufacturer masquerading as a Japanese company of master craftsmen.

    But I must say what is intersting is that Kamikoto has attracted 5 pages of comments in a single post. Now how far will it go I think is the most interesting thing that might come out of this.
     
  8. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    I agree to a large extent. The knife CERTAINLY seems to be less than purported.

    But I think you meant “insightful”... which I would disagree since the First Amendment assures a freedom to speak ones mind and to anyone not under such a privilege there is something called common courtesy.

    Plus, it’s always usefull to hear first-hand assessment of the real product to supplement the assessment of specs and “feedback”. Truth be told, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the 1-star reviews were shilled by haters, whether they have personal experience or not. Who’s to say, though... we all tend to believe whatever supports our position.

    So... to each his own; live and let live.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
    millionsknives likes this.
  9. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    165
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    Aside from the fact that this forum is not a democracy, as moderators have frequently pointed out, the first amendment has nothing to do with intelligent "insight" (and thanks for the spelling lesson), and this forum exists for that kind of insight, and not for ignorant, cognitively dissonant and otherwise baseless opinionating or outright BS. Most people come here looking for insights from people who have used and are otherwise familiar with knives of established performance and value over a broad spectrum of performance and cost, and can otherwise separate the wheat from the chaff. And that is what the regular contributors here strive to provide, with only a very tiny number of exceptions.
     
  10. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Perfect... that seems to be exactly the purpose this thread serves! :)
     
  11. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    165
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    With an amusingly obvious number of exceptions.
     
  12. brianshaw

    brianshaw

    Messages:
    3,230
    Likes Received:
    388
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    Agreed... and thank goodness for the insights of those who actually held a Kamikoto and gave us first-hand user reports to set the facts straight!

    I know I get sick and tired of being pummeled by their ad on Facebook. The ads sure look slick but...
     
    millionsknives likes this.
  13. KenOfPortland

    KenOfPortland

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exp:
    I can heat up Campbell’s Chunky Soup in a pot
    We’ll see if I end up using them long enough for that :lol:. Also I don’t think my superficial observations as a cooking newbie quite rise to the occasion of qualifying as a proper “review” as yet. I’m not so much at the point where I can reliably cook a medium-rare steak without a sous vide.

    But I’ve ordered a couple knives from another company that presumably qualifies as less “hoakie”. I figure experience with them will dissuade me from using this Kamikoto piece rather quickly. But maybe for grins I’ll still try to use the Kamikoto here and there to at least verify it’s as mediocre in the long-term as suspected. I don’t expect otherwise, but I agree it will be more useful to say “I bothered to use this for x months and the blade now spins around freely in the plastic handle wtf?” than just saying “China sucks”. A lot of Japanese companies in other industries have moved primary manufacturing to China. Fat chance getting 4K TVs competently manufactured anywhere else for under $2k, for example. But I guess knives are a different animal in that regard.
     
  14. youraveragecook

    youraveragecook

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exp:
    1
    Noob here! I'm glad I ran into this insightful thread. Been seeing Kamikoto ads on my FB thread forever now, and have been curious. I thought it was time for me to get some big boy knives, so did some digging and saw the reviews here and some awful fake reviews on Amazon.

    For my first Japanese knife, I'm "settling" for the Ishikawa White #2 Santoku. Purchasing from chefsknivestogo as recommended by twistedsage on post #21.

    Thank you!
     
  15. rick alan

    rick alan

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes Received:
    165
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    I will just warn you that Marc Richmond, and hid sidekick knife nerd, are famous for the hype and bologna, and this knife seems at the top of that. This knife will wedge some in carrots and such, the secondary bevel is 15 degrees inclusive, not the primary bevel which you can see just below it. On an ordinary gyuto the secondary would be about 4 degrees inclusive. The description just screams BS. Actual cutting edge will probably be around 20+ degrees inclusive. !5 degrees inclusive is steeper than even a straight straight razor, extremely delicate.

    This is sort of a cheap version of an Usuba, which would be thicker and have a hollow grind on the back side. This knife would be OK for thin slicing, with a good bit of practice to counter the steering problem, onions and such, but not a good all-arounder at all very narrow usage range. With the flat back you'd have some real sticktion problems, and I feel a more typical grind would work better in this knife's narrow range. Granted though, the knife should have good food release.

    Chris Lehrer can tell you about Usubas, and the problems of using them. I personally use a laser with 50/50 grind (typical for lasers) for thin slicing. You can easily use them for Usuba work, like katsurumaki (making "vegetable skin")

    Just want you to know what you are getting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
  16. dogfood

    dogfood Banned

    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    10
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    Have two Japanese knives..they have been archived for 25+ years
    Used to use the old (bottom) stamped Suncraft -for a bit if sashimi/sushi (excuse my bad stone work)
    Was given the boxed Sakon usuba - never used
    Dropped by the Knifewear shop last weekend & tried a $$$$ Gyuto unit, very nice- I do admit!
    But,.. I leave my knives on the counter, in the sink, and (heaven forbid) drop them on the floor.
    I'm not going to spend $$ for a princess knife that will chip/corrode, TYVM.
    Just got a Work Sharp Ken Onion..more than happy with the edge(es) on all my SS kitchen knives..not bothering to use a stone at this point..
    I do not display my knives on a mag strip, fondle them, polish them, nor do I show them off..(other than now)
    I use knives for what they were meant for..a tool!
    One could purchase a commemorative gold plated .30-.30 also..would one use it professionally?
    Probably not.
    /end opinion
    Japanese knives.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
  17. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,640
    Likes Received:
    553
    Exp:
    I Just Like Food
    What does this have to do with the topic?
     
    rick alan likes this.
  18. smandracchia

    smandracchia

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    13
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    I've been an Executive Chef for about 27 years in DC and Manhattan and grew up in a family of commercial fishermen with a knife in my hand. I am also a custom blade smith and specialize in unique Chef knives. I work with my own Damascus, D2 and Blue and White Steel. I was so put off by their ad's on Facebook that I purposely wasted the cash and bought a set just to see them. Trust me - if you want a true professional Japanese Knife go to Korin in NYC. ( or I'll make you one but I'm no Bob Kramer ) Kamikoto is a sad slick marketing joke producing inferior quality cutlery with no pedigree nor information on steel composition or degree of hardness. I took a file to one (usually how we check hardness after a quench) and easily gouged the spine. They are somewhat comfortable (handle is like a Shun) but the edge is crap and there is no way these were finished on a stone. They were edged on a belt and quickly given a fast polish. The edge geometry makes no sense and just don't waste your time or money. I did it for you. Steve