Is it 4 or 5

Discussion in 'Professional Chefs' started by fodigger, May 8, 2002.

  1. fodigger

    fodigger

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    CC asked a question about mother sauces in the trivia game. I have always thought there are only 4 as I don't include hollandaise as it is an emulsion. If you count hollandaise aren't you also obligated to count mayonnaise. It is also the base for many sauces. What are the thoughts out there?
     
  2. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    one of my books lists mayo as a sauce.

    My kids will also tell you that ketchup is the bestest sauce but I don't think that counts here. :)
     
  3. peachcreek

    peachcreek

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    I thought emulsions were considered as one single type. Mayo and Hollandaise are so similar. I guess you could group them together as 'colloidal sauces" to be more encompassing. But then again I just have a high school chemistry background....
    Amazing... What my chem. teacher told me just a few short 30 years ago came to pass- something from that dumb chemistry class might be valuable in the future. Too bad he died a few years back or I'd go tell him!
     
  4. cape chef

    cape chef

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    FODIGGER,

    All Mother sauces are cooked sauces, so mayo is not a mother sauce, but Hollandaise is considered one of the "5" mother sauces,

    everything else dirived from them are called compound sauces

    Espanole, hollandaise, velute, bechamel and tomato :)
     
  5. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    Ok CC,

    You're gonna have to explain this one to me. If the Mother sauces are cooked sauces and Hollandaise isn't......how the heck did they fit it into the Mother sauce category. I KNOW it's a Mother Sauce cause that's what my professor told me but this is a little confusing. :confused:

    And another thing....I warm our Hollandaise sauce if someone is Pregnant, old or a baby....am I making something other than Hollandaise? Does my warming it up make it into a "real" Mother sauce?

    Aw CC you just had to go and scramble my wires today. :D And here I was recovering from having fried my brain yesterday! :rolleyes: I think I need to take another nap and re read your post, Im sure Ill be able to compute your words by then.

    Jodi
     
  6. fodigger

    fodigger

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    The egg is cooked before the butter is added in hollandaise were it isn't in mayo.
    I still can't get by the emulsion part though. Looking for some more answers either way
     
  7. cape chef

    cape chef

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    Dear Shawtycat,

    Sorry about the confusion, This I am a pro at (confusion :))

    Hollandaise is in fact a "cooked" sauce. When you whip the eggs over heat to increase the volume, you are cooking them, the clarified butter is slowly added (no more then 110 degree's)

    as far as your question about heating your sauce, I'm not quite sure I understand?

    Hollandaise is served warm.
    cc
     
  8. cape chef

    cape chef

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    Fodigger,

    What is it about the colloid you don't get?

    You absolutly correct about the sauce being an emulsion, but like I said, hollandaise is cooked, and mayo is not
     
  9. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    Psst! CC!

    Don't mention that fact to our cook! He'd never believe you. The hollandaise is stored in the fridge.....probably because not that many people order it. AND it could be the fact that, I personally don't consider it REAL Hollandaise......cause it comes as a POWDERED MIX in a can!

    Ive never had to make hollandaise at our place, although I did ask and suggest but you know how that goes when you don't have tenure. I think Ill just make some for me...well after Ive had the baby.
     
  10. alynch

    alynch

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    Hello

    If you add cream to hollandaise, is it still hollandaise, or is it a totally different sauce altogether?
     
  11. peachcreek

    peachcreek

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    Cape Chef was correct when he mentioned the 5 "mother" sauces. What they are are the 5 bases from which all other sauces called "small sauces" are derived. One of the derevations of the Hollandaise "mother" sauce are the other colloidal sauces which Cape Chef informed are called "compound sauces". Adding Hollandaise to whipping cream makes "Mousseline" which, by defination would be a "small sauce".
     
  12. mezzaluna

    mezzaluna

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    Wow! :cool: I am really enjoying this thread and learning a lot. My hat's off to all of you (I don't merit a toque.. not in this lifetime!) :chef:
     
  13. fodigger

    fodigger

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    OK deep breath now....
    In school I was taught, as many of you were, that there are 5 mother sauces, with hollandaise being the fifth. I also was taught that because hollandaise was an emulsion, that it didn't qualify as a mother sauce(I was taught this by a very old school european chef that I served an apprenticeship under).
    I brought up the question as something to discuss. For me, it doesn't matter truely if a person believes there are 4 or 5 mother sauces what matters is can they make them. I can name several hollandaise based sauces that grace my menus from time to time including mousseline, maltaise and choron to name a few. CC's statement reminded me of an old question that I thought might prove an interesting point of discussion. I guess I have always fallen into the "4" catagory because of the respect I feel for my friends knowledge and experiance and the general lack of respect I felt for most of my instructors at school(with some glaring exceptions of course). While the arguements either way fail to sway me, I grant you that they make perfect sense, and I will always say there are 4 mother sauces; 5 if you include hollandaise.
    Having said that, "There are only 4 true mother sauces" nanananaaa:D :D :D :D :D :D
    Can we make that grin any bigger?:D :D :D
     
  14. chiffonade

    chiffonade

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    Woo hoo! I thought I had remembered tomato being one of the Mother sauces...hubby had written that memory off as me trying to Italianize everything. My Belgian cooking teacher used to take issue with tomato being a Mother sauce...You think the French are proud??

    ;)
     
  15. foodnfoto

    foodnfoto

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    :confused: ;) :cool:
    Isn't Tabasco one of the mother sauces?
    It sure is around here!:lips: ;) :)

    Just joking friends.
     
  16. kuan

    kuan Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a different sauce. For example, if you add whipped cream to hollandaise you can brown it under the broiler and it's a mousseline, a name of a sauce, which, if used in the wrong culinary context may cause major confusion :)

    Kuan