Increasing amount of sauce without sacrificing flavor

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by gottagarnish, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. gottagarnish

    gottagarnish

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    After sauteing 8 chicken cutlets, I make a relatively thin Marsala sauce from the brown bits and fat left in the pan. I would like to increase the amount of sauce I can produce.  Although I don't normally add a roux, I've tried adding a small amount (1 tbsp each, butter and flour) just to give me more base for the additional amount of Marsala and reduced chicken broth I want to use.  I believe this method decreases the flavor, so I'm wondering if there is a better way.  I have several dishes that need more sauce than my basic recipe supports.    
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  2. french fries

    french fries

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    Don't use a roux. Use more chicken stock, and reduce to desired consistency. 
     
  3. koukouvagia

    koukouvagia

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    Why does it decrease flavor?  Doesn't butter add more flavor?  I agree with FF though that you need to reduce more after adding more chicken stock.  Chicken stock will give you more flavor, don't try to make up the flavor with the wine.

    Often when I want to thicken the sauce a little bit without adding flour I add a few breadcrumbs, they do they job well.
     
  4. gottagarnish

    gottagarnish

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    Thanks to both of you for your responses.  My question may have been misleading, and may even be a no-brainer.  What I really want is just more sauce...not particularly trying to thicken it.  To make the sauce, I was using the remains of the fat left in the pan, along with the brown bits and some residual flour from the chicken.  Now I want to increase the amount of sauce and was assuming that I could add some Marsala and reduced chicken broth in the same proportions, but thought I should also increase the proportion of the flavor base (butter and flour...or maybe just fat), without frying more chicken.  
     
  5. berndy

    berndy

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    What you need is to add  more  ready made brown sauce. You can go the classical way and make a demi-glace as restaurants do ,or use any kind of brown sauce or gravy you have on hand at home.

    I always have some brown sauce in my freezer. Whenever I make a roasted chicken I will make as much sauce as I can get out of it and freeze the amount not used for later . A large chicken easyly will give me a pint and a half of sauce .I also save any other sauce from a pork roast or a pot-roast that is not eaten with the meal itself in my freezer. And when I do roast a whole turkey on Thanksgiving or Christmas there is always extra gravy left for later use.
     
  6. gottagarnish

    gottagarnish

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    Thanks.  I've never made demi-glace but know if takes a lot of time.  May give it a try, since I rarely have more sauce than I really need.  
     
  7. berndy

    berndy

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    a canned gravy if properly doctored up with shallots and garlic might do fine for you
     
  8. gottagarnish

    gottagarnish

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    Thanks, again.  I'm also wondering if maybe reducing chicken (or beef) broth, together with an equal(or maybe lessor) amount of vegetable broth might be worth a try?  Think so?  
     
  9. ordo

    ordo

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    In your place i would go berndy's first advice. Learn to make brown sauce, demi-glace and latter glace de viande. It's time consuming but will solve a lot of your sauce needs. 
     
  10. berndy

    berndy

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    Reducing broth alone will only give you some kind of almost glace de viande like concentrate. NOW if you add this concentrate to a can of Cream of Chicken along with caramelized onions and a bit of caramel color you might get something of a light brown cream-like looking sauce with a slight meaty taste you could use.
     
  11. chefedb

    chefedb

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    Forget vege stock, its chicken dish stick with chicken stock . If you dredged the cutlets in flour the sauce should be thick already. Add a bit more stck then butter a bit more wine if you want let it simmer a bit .Don't add roux or fake canned gravy . You are doing it correctly stick with your way

    maybe a touch more salt and freash pepper and let cook a bit more, it will almost form a Demi.

        A Glace D Viand requires hours of cooking and reduction . a 10 gallon pot of stock cooked down (simmered)  to maybe a  pint of geletinous glace for about 16 hours  is the real thing. It was the original soup base and it had no chemicals.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
  12. gottagarnish

    gottagarnish

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    Thanks for all of your comments.  At the risk of asking for too much detail and trying your patience...just one final question: 

    If I want to increase the amount of sauce by 25%, one way, according to one suggestion, would be to simply add 25% more butter, stock and wine, and cream, proportionally, to what I'm using now, OR based on another suggestion, I could increase them all by 25%, plus a tablespoon (or so) of glace to give it even more richness.  The glace would be making up for the missing richness of the original brown bits or fond. I'm assuming that the glace doesn't actually replace anything, since its addition doesn't do much to increase the volume I'm looking for.   

    Feel like I'm obsessing over something that should be very simple. Hope I'm on the right track.  
     
  13. french fries

    french fries

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    I would simply use more stock, butter, wine and cream proportionally. But if you want more meat flavor, then just use more stock - not more butter/wine/cream. 

    Glace is reduced stock, so it will affect both the flavor (strong reduced meat flavor) and the consistency of your sauce. Glace+water = stock. Reduced stock = glace. Personally I never use glace, I just use stock that I reduce until I get the desired consistency. Sometimes I buy glace de viande - then I'll dilute with water to demi-glace consistency and use in my sauce. Since I'm already at the demi-glace consistency I don't need much reducing to get to the desired sauce consistency. 

    Hope that helps. 
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  14. berndy

    berndy

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    I would go and  buy a pint of demi-glace from a restaurant, since this would be the most cost effective way to go.

     Bring your own container.

    Even KFC sells gravy with their mashed potaoes. Their stuff sucks, but its better than what you are having at home now.
     
  15. french fries

    french fries

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    I use the following product: 
     
  16. chefedb

    chefedb

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    You would have to increase about 30% allowing for cooking off.  If you added  30% of eah your recipe would be off ,as original formula was not 25% of each ingredient added together. I would add it by taste till I got results I wanted. Then write that down and use it all the time
     
  17. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    Just an aside... if you are planning on using premade stock from the grocery try to find a low sodium brand.

    Reducing the liquid in stock will leave you with a greater salt to liquid ratio.

    Hmmm salt lick gravy.

    mimi
     
  18. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Yes.  Pretty much. 

    I'm disposed to quibble over the word "richness," because I associate that with mouthfeel and I don't think the relative amount of jus lie or demi will do much in that direction; but it will certainly give you a better rounded and more intense flavor and move the profile in much the same direction as fond.  Fond also brings a sweetness which is a product of the Maillard reaction.  You won't get that from an ordinary chicken demi, or jus lie, but will get at least some from one based on roasted chicken. 

    The More than Gourmet products FrenchFries recommends are probably excellent for your purposes.  I think you can get them more cheaply from commercial suppliers in commercial sizes (tubs) than in individual packets from Amazon but that's something you'll have to search for yourself.  

    I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to achieve, how long you plan on holding, etc., but would avoid any starch thickening with a Marsala/cream sauce.  Your best bet in terms of getting some extra chicken goodness into your stretched sauce is a combination of reduction and the addition of either More than Gourmet Jus Lie (20X stock reduction), or More than Gourmet Fond (40X stock reduction). 

    BDL
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2012
  19. chefedb

    chefedb

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    Commercially  Knorr,Minor and Custom make half way decent Demi 's.. It is not the same Knorr as you buy in a supermart.
     
  20. french fries

    french fries

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    In my experience premade stock from the grocery store just doesn't have any body to it, so even reduced it will not give you the desired consistency. 
    ... which is basically just sodium... (here are the first ingredients listed: Salt, monosodium glutamate, hydrolyzed soy/corn/wheat gluten protein, hydrogenated cottonseed oil, beef fat....)