I need help with this sweet pastry

Discussion in 'Pastries & Baking' started by ordo, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. ordo

    ordo

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    Hello friends. I need some help. Truth is i know nothing about pastries. This one is a ricotta tart and the pastry is very nice, sweet and soft. It's a pleasure in itself, don't matter the filling. There's some icing sugar on top.


    It's not pate brisée, or choux pastry or puff pastry or brioche or croissant or a simple cake. It can be molded also. I tried to replicate it without success. Can somebody point me how is it done? I thought i could use almonds flour but i'm not sure. Thanks in advance for any help.
     
  2. siduri

    siduri

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    Not sure, Ordo, but that looks like what they call a "diplomatico" here - maybe you can look that up and see. You can read Italian, right?  I'd do it for you but don't have time right now.  Try "diplomatico" "pasta OR pasticcini OR paste OR pastarella" "site: .it"  And is it ricotta inside or a bavarian cream?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  3. ordo

    ordo

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    Thanks Siduri. and yes, i can read Italian. Giallozafferano says:

    La diplomatica si compone di strati di pasta sfoglia e uno strato di pan di Spagna, etc.

    But this is not pasta sfoglia. Its an homogeneous pastry, almost white-yellow and very tender and light. There seems to be not yeast at all. Also, not bubbles. Not sure. I'm null at pastries.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  4. samwest61

    samwest61

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    Can you maybe post the recipe so we can see what kind of flour to fat ratios you have in the pastry? That might help us identify it. If you can 'mold' it, as you say, it could even be some kind of thin sponge as opposed to a pastry. The minute you talked about molding I thought of a genoise....
     
  5. ordo

    ordo

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    That's not my dessert Sam. I bought it at a pâtisserie. That's the reason i'm looking for a recipe.

    It's not a genoise. It seems to me that it has some butter in it.
     
  6. samwest61

    samwest61

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    Yep I would bet my life savings on that too. Sorry, hard to tell from a photo! 
     
  7. ordo

    ordo

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    Since you're in Germany, next to Österreich, could it be some kind of Viennese pastry?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  8. samwest61

    samwest61

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    Given that its a ricotto tart I would err on the side of Italy, honestly though I really can't tell you more than that!
     
  9. siduri

    siduri

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    My experience with diplomatici is that there is a very thin layer of pasta sfoglia (which generally means puff pastry, although sometimes it means flaky piecrusty pastry, rarely though) with pan di spagna (which is spongecake or genoise) right under (or on top of) it.  From the picture it seems to have a very thin layer of something and the thicker crust seems to be a sort of sponge.  (pan di spagna has no yeast, it's just eggs, flour and sugar)

    I'd bet if it's so tender as a crust, it's a very thin layer of puff pastry, or maybe a very very thin buttery brisee.  I say very thin because cutting through a puff pastry with a fork would squish the filling out of it, but if it's extremely thin (just a couple of layers) it would break easily with the fork, which is the texture i remember for a diplomatico.  I looked online and i can'\t find a recipe that doesn't call for frozen puff pastry (sfoglia) but i imagine a pasticceria would be making its own. 

    If it has ricotta, then from the looks of it, it's probably got gelatin and eggwhites, since it looks both light and solid (cuttable). 
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  10. ordo

    ordo

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    Thanks Siduri. I'll make a try on a shortcrust with a bigger proportion of butter, confectioners' sugar and a small proportion of almonds flour. i will solve this mistery!
     
  11. ordo

    ordo

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    Well, i used 200 grams of butter, 100 grams of all purpose flour, 100 grams of icing sugar an drops of vanilla. No egg. No yeast. I skiped almonds flour and lemon zest to keep it simple. The dough was very sticky and it's in the fridge for 4 hours now. Question: should i bake at high or low temp?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  12. samwest61

    samwest61

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    That's way too much fat, I don't think the oven temp matters much as your dough will be way too wet, but good luck anyway!
     
  13. ordo

    ordo

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    I'm afraid you're right Sam. Well..., i'm going to give it a try at low temp. This dough is edible as it is now without baking, go figure. I even bought some tartlets molds. Ordo making sweet pastries. Live to see it all!
     
  14. samwest61

    samwest61

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    Ordo, I was doing a bit of baking myself this evening and had a thought regarding your dilemma. I baked a German tray bake called Bienenstich. The dough is called hefeteig which translates as yeast dough, but its basically an enriched dough that is rolled out flat, baked and then cut in half. The filling, in this case pastry cream with whipped butter, is then layered between the two thin sheets of baked dough. Take a look at this pic and see if it looks at all like the ricotta tart that you had. They don't look entirely dissimilar to me...

     
  15. ordo

    ordo

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    That looks pretty good. Can you share the recipe?
    I have to confess my miserable failure. The buttered dough is literally boiling in the oven. Thanks God i used just a part of the dough. I will add flour and an egg yolk.

    What kind of a demoniac alchemy is this thing called pàtisserie?
     
  16. samwest61

    samwest61

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    Haha I feel bad for you! Don't worry you learnt an important lesson today, sadly you can't wing it when it comes to pastry! Well, for the most part anyway. I'll pm you the recipe when I get a minute to transcribe it from German :)
     
  17. ordo

    ordo

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    Thanks. Meanwhile i added flour, mortar powdered pecan walnuts, more icing sugar, 1 lemon zest, 1 egg yolk and a tea spoon of  baking soda. Consistency is much better know. This is fun! So unpredictable!
     
  18. ordo

    ordo

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    New mix at hot oven. Disaster. It broke as Sahara sand. I regret the pecan nuts.

    New try at quiet, tiepid oven.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  19. siduri

    siduri

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    Hi Ordo,

    if you never baked, take it from someone who's been baking for 50 years (yeah, really, and before that i was making mudpies!) - when you start baking, start with recipes - tried and true recipes.  Get them from someone here, or get them in good cookbooks with authors who test the recipes, but don't improvise.  You first need to get the feel of it.  Make someone's recipe, julia child's pate brisee, or her puff pastry, or some other reliable source, see how it comes out, get a feel for the proportion of the ingredients, and then you can fiddle around with it, substitute some nuts for some of the flour, or whatever. 

    Unless you want to wade through dozens of flat dense or dry cakes, pastry that becomes a greasy mess, etc, because you enjoy the experimentation (for me it's too frustrating) then ok.  But you might want to get a professional baker's book that will give you some proportions of fat to flour to liquid, etc, and will explain the chemistry behind it all. 

    I can make a reasonable brisee without measuring, because i have a visual sense of how much butter and flour i usually use, without measuring.  But without having made hundreds of pies and tartes and quiches, i wouldn;t  be able to do it, and if it's for something important, i always measure and follow a recipe.
     
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  20. chrisbelgium

    chrisbelgium

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    Ordo, that simply looks like one of our favorites! It's know here in its French name, "miserable". There's a lot of almond broyage in it.

    Found this picture on the web;


    I never made it myself; I'm such a horrible baker ànd we have too many good patissiers over here. If that's it, I'll gladly look up a nice recipe and translate it. BTW, there's no ricotta in it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013