i need help with a report on the 5 mother sauces.

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by matrix42013, Jun 4, 2011.

  1. matrix42013

    matrix42013

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    i am a student at Le Courdon Blu school of culinary arts in Orlando, Fl. we have a report to do on a resturant that uses all five of the mothers sauces. we are going by escoffias 5 of bachamel, veloute, espagnole, hollandaise/mayonnaise, and vinagrette. the report consists of several questions.

    1 what is the name of the restaurant?

    2 where is it located?

    3 how long it has been in business?

    4 describe the cuisine?

    5 who is the executive chef?

    6 is he classically trained?

    7 is he the owner? and how long has he worked there?

    8 list the dishes that incorporate the primary sauces.

    these are the questions i need to find. i have just started school and have a limited knowledge of the sauces and there derivatives, or other sauces made from the mother sauces. if anyone can help with a place that uses all 5 mother sauces that i can contact for more info or if someone owns or works somewhere that does and can help me with these questions i would greatly appreciate it and you would be given credit as a source in my report.

    thanks for the help,

    Larry McGlauthlin
     
  2. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    Where are you located? That's the starting to point to best contacting the restaurant.
     
  3. matrix42013

    matrix42013

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    i am located in kissimmee, Fl. i am 32 and haven't had to right a report in a loooooong time lol. my girlfriend is helping me with the layout but some of the information gathering is whats hard for me. this report is about the mother sauces but if the restaurant has alfredo i can use that for bachamel since it is used to make alfredo sauce. just like espagnole is used to make demi. when i look at a restaurants menu i see a lot of sauces and whatnot but i don't have the knowledge to tell which of the 5 is used to make it. i think that is whats really holding me up.
     
  4. kuan

    kuan Moderator Staff Member

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    One of the best French restaurants in the nation is in your neighborhod.  Le Coq au Vin.  Started by Louis Perrotte.  Now owned by Reimund Peitz.
     
  5. chef borden

    chef borden

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    Hello Matrix, i am with you on my lack of knowledge about the 5 mother sauces. Although i have been making sauces based around some of them for years, I had n fundamental understanding of them. As of late I have working on developing my skills and knowledge of cooking, and this is one of the areas I have been focusing on learning. I found a good link that gives some information on the 5 mothers sauces. It is here: http://lynnescountrykitchen.net/sauc/mothersauces.html

    If anyone can provide more information, tips they have picked up through experience, etc. I would love to learn more. 
     
  6. chefedb

    chefedb

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             Hope you are not looking for mayonaise or vinagrette as mother sauces cause I would give you a F for failure  They are Bechamel--Veloute--Tomato--Espanol or Brown--and Hollandaise or butter.   There are no  others, although some folks add Beurre Blanc to the list which really is not.  Most upscale classy restaurants and Hotels use all of them. Other places use some of them. Other places use them and  just don't know it.

                      You look all of this up as that is the way to truly learn. Sauces are all explained in the Esscoffier Cookbook, or Culinary Institute cookbooks  Another thing to do check out The Zagat report.

              Also to Matrix  Do not classify Alfeddo as Bechamel as true Alfreddo is just heavy cream and good cheese and some times an egg yolk. Here in America we do with Bechamel ,but mostly for banquet and buffet.
     
    bishop likes this.
  7. matrix42013

    matrix42013

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    to Kuan, thank you. i have set up an appointment to talk to the chef at Le Coq au Vin tomorrow.

    to Chef Borden, thanks for the link. it has helped quite a bit. i am new to the vast world of food. i have "cooked" before but never really created anything as a chef.

    to Chefedb, i do not feel our class chef would agree with you about mayonaise or vinagrette. our books are all based on Escoffier and Careme. if you look Escoffier 5 mother sauces it is written as "hollandaise/mayonaise". and Vinagrette id deffinetly one of the mother sauces. tomato is actualy classified as a mother sauce, though it should be, but tomato sauce came some time "after" the five original. i hope with 50 years of food experiance your "F" comment was just your opinion abou the sauces. thank you anyways. :)
     
  8. kuan

    kuan Moderator Staff Member

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    Check out #7.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  9. matrix42013

    matrix42013

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    Béchamel, the classic white sauce, was named after its inventor, Louis XIV's steward Louis de Béchamel. The king of all sauces, it is often referred to as a cream sauce because of its appearance and is probably used most frequently in all types of dishes. Made by stirring milk into a butter-flour roux, the thickness of the sauce depends on the proportion of flour and butter to milk. The proportions for a thin sauce would be 1 tablespoon each of butter and flour per 1 cup of milk; a medium sauce would use 2 tablespoons each of butter and flour; a thick sauce, 3 tablespoons each.

    Velouté is a stock-based white sauce. It can be made from chicken, veal or fish stock. Enrichments such as egg yolks  or cream are sometimes also added.

    Espagnole, or brown sauce, is traditionally made of a rich meat stock, a mirepoix of browned vegetables (most often a mixture of diced onion, carrots and celery), a nicely browned roux, herbs and sometimes tomato paste.

    Hollandaise  and Mayonnaise  are two sauces that are made with an emulsion of egg yolks and fat. Hollandaise is made with butter, egg yolks and lemon juice, usually in adouble boiler  to prevent overheating, and served warm. It is generally used to embellish vegetables, fish and egg dishes, such as the classic Eggs Benedict. Mayonnaise is a thick, creamy dressing that's an emulsion of vegetable oil, egg yolks, lemon juice or vinegar and seasonings. It is widely used as a spread, a dressing and as a sauce. It's also used as the base for such mixtures as Tartar SauceThousand Island Dressing, Aïoli, and Remoulade.

    Vinagrette is a sauce made of a simple blend of oil, vinegar, salt and pepper (usually 3 parts oil to 1 part vinegar). More elaborate variations can include any combination of spices, herbs, shallots, onions, mustard, etc. It is generally used to dress salad greens and other cold vegetable, meat or fish dishes.

    (Tomato  is considered to be among the 5 mother sauces, however, it actually came about later...although it certainly has earned the title since it is the base for a large variety of sauces in today's cookery.)
     
  10. matrix42013

    matrix42013

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    it also depends if you are going by Careme or Escoffier. i am not trying to belittle tomato sauce i'm just saying if you look it up online it seams to be quite a debate to the "true" 5 mother sauces. but the only diffrence seams to be tomato and vinagrette. there both there but never on the same list. :)
     
  11. cosanostra

    cosanostra

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    Hey Larry.

    I may be a bit of a dissenting voice here but I can't believe they still teach this s**t at college/culinary school. If I walked into a professional kitchen and saw people making a roux for a veloute, bechamel or god forbid an espagnole, I'd burst out laughing and assume I'd gone through some time warp or something. Only a total s**thole would be making sauces this way nowadays or perhaps some dinosaur chef who doesn't know any better may still be peddling this "roux" or "beurre manie" bulls**t.

    By all means teach this as part of the history of food, but what is the point of teaching this in practical classes when very few decent restaurants will be using these techniques? The truth is we have far better ways of making sauces these days and if I were you I'd ask my lecturers to teach me techniques that I will actually be using. 

    College/culinary school is the biggest rip off and waste of time you can do as a chef. If you want to be a good chef, then go work for one. Get into the best kitchen you can and you will learn more there in a week than what you will learn in any school's entire programme. When I look at cv's I don't even consider what educational qualifications they have, I go straight to where they have been working. A chef who had been working in good places for 2/4 years is worth 1000 times what the same chef would be if they had just been to some culinary school for the same amount of time.

    If Escoffier or Careme were alive today they wouldn't be using the same techniques, so why should you?
     
  12. matrix42013

    matrix42013

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    i do agree with you if this was what i was learning in the middle of my education but this is the first report i have to do in the 2nd week of my education. we are learning the basics and fundamentles so when we go into our first real hands on class we'll understand a little more. this school is also only 9 months long but at the end we have an externship we can enter to get real experiance with real chefs.
     
  13. kuan

    kuan Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah it's been debated here before, and since before, prior to before.
     
  14. panini

    panini

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    Matrix,

    You would also get an F from me. We are talking about larger/mother sauces. The largers are usually not used straight in most operations.

    They prepare smaller sauces with the larger. C'mon guys, I'm a sweet guy and know this.

    /img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011
  15. teamfat

    teamfat

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    [quote name="chefedb" url="/forum/thread/66085/i-need-help-with-a-report-on-the-5-mother-sauces#post_352849"]
    Also to Matrix  Do not classify Alfeddo as Bechamel as true Alfreddo is just heavy cream and good cheese and some times an egg yolk.
    [/quote]

    I believe that "true" alfredo is butter, parm and some of the pasta cooking water. No cream whatsoever involved.

    mjb.
     
  16. thetincook

    thetincook

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    Matrix- Mayonaise and Vinegrette are the bastard children of the Gardemanger. Not really mother sauce material.

    I was taught that bechemel originated in Italy where it was called balsamella. Catherine de Medici took it to France when she shacked up with Henry II.

    You might also talk about how the sauces have changed over the years, eg Espagnole, which used to feature ham along with the mirepoix.

    Speaking of Espagnole, I've seen people replace it one the list with demi, because it seems like no one uses Espagnole anymore (always gets turned into demi).
     

    Also keep in mind that the tomato mother sauce is different then Italian sauce. It's tomato plus stock plus (blonde?) roux. Classically it also features ham or saltpork in the aromatics.
    Oh, fighting words! I'd rather a roux sauce then a snot textured jus lie any day. I always wondered why new wave French chefs criticized the roux sauces for being too heavy, when they used reduced cream for almost everything.
     
  17. cosanostra

    cosanostra

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    This is a good point. No matter the style of food, poor technique is poor technique. I think like anything it's the abuses of certain techniques that lead to people abandoning them all together, and jumping on the latest bandwagon all the time is just as bad as never evolving in my opinion. I can remember some of my old Head chefs falling in to this trap............One minute we have to have a jelly with everything, then everything has to have an air or foam with it, then everything has to be cooked sous vide etc.  To be honest when I'm cooking at home I still use a roux for a bechamel now and again and still really enjoy it in a nice lasagne or moussaka or something. Done well, as with all the mother sauces, it is a real treat.

    However, if you believe that cooking should be about trying to maintain or enhance the natural flavours of the ingredients themselves then making a tomato sauce, veloute or demi with a roux base probably isn't the way to go.

    Having read back my previous post, perhaps it was a little negative on the whole chef school thing. Here in the UK, our catering colleges and the syllabus taught in them is a complete joke. They are so underfunded I remember we got taught how to prep a chicken, fillet a fish etc by watching our lecturer do it and that was it. Never got taught how to make a good stock or how to cook anything really. Some of the monstrosities I saw being produced by my fellow students for their final exams was embarrassing to watch. I was working in a pretty good kitchen while I was doing my college course and my senior chefs would all enjoy asking me what I learned at college that day so they could all have a good laugh about it. At the time I was a little disheartened by this but when it was my turn to start building a brigade and I was getting these college kids come along for trials, I couldn't believe how unprepared some of them were and some of the practices they were taught.

    Also they fill these kids heads with so much fantasy. I had a look at my old college's website and on their course description they say that the career possibilities once you have completed your course are to go straight into a Sous/Head chef job. I feel really sorry for the students that bought into that. 

    Perhaps it is different in the US, although having worked with chefs straight out of US culinary schools, I don't think it's that different. As for French based technique, over here everything is still very much influenced by France because the chefs that taught me had all gone through a classical French training, since in their younger days the only good restaurants where everything was made in house and cooked with care were French. This has changed so much in recent times that we are starting to have the confidence to say "you know what, I like this and this about French technique but I don't like that so I'm going to change it". It has improved the standards across the board and made it possible to learn solid technique without stepping into a French kitchen, although only at the highest level. Our mid to low price restaurants are generally still terrible this side of the pond.

    So all I would say is this. Enjoy culinary school, jump through whatever hoops they throw at you, but bear in mind that what they are teaching you, there has probably been a better way of doing it for about 30 years. 
     
  18. panini

    panini

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    Hey TinCook,

    That story about Cathrine De Medici reminds me of my pop telling me how he had to walk 16 miles to school with a saxaphone and books in the snow with holes in his shoes.

    This broad is credited for so much stuff. Italian ice, bechamela, pasta fagioli etc. They must have had to hoist her up on an elephant with a catapult'
     
  19. chrisbelgium

    chrisbelgium

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    Larry, the list below may be useful when contacting restaurants and could be used as a checklist? It's up to you.

    I'm always a little surprised to see the obsession of culinary teachers in the US with mother sauces! Probably because this is a topic that can be stretched indefinately, and of course, time is money?

    The list below is another approach that treats mentions basic sauses instead of mother sauces. I have no participation at all in making this list, it's a translation I made from the flemish website;

    http://www.keukentheorie.net/  

    The guy who made this list is a pro with culinary background, probably also in teaching. It's still very alive and useful and in my opinion very accurate. I left out a lot about making the basic sauces, but I put the emphasis on the derivates. The derivates are not complete, they mention the most used ones.

    Also, when reading through this thread, I think it could useful to check on the correct spelling.

    Here you go;

    Basic sauces

    There are 6 basic sauces;

    - Béchamel sauce

    - Velouté sauces

    - Tomato sauce

    - Demi-glace and poivrade

    - Sauces based on oil

    - Sauces based on butter

    1. Béchamel

    Two methods; Cold milk added gradually to a warm roux or cooled crumbled roux mixed in boiling milk.

    Some derivatives;

    Made with béchamel plus...

    - cooked onion puree; sauce Soubise

    - grated cheese; sauce Mornay

    - fresh cream; cream sauce

    - Tomato puree; sauce Aurore

    2. Velouté sauces

    Is never made with a dark fond (=stock), always a white fond, either ordinary white fond, poultry fond, fish fond...

    Composition; roux + fond

    Some derivatives;

    A. Made with base of ordinary velouté plus... eggyolks and lemonjuice plus...

    - cooking juices of champignons; sauce Allemande

    - chopped fines herbes (fresh herbs); sauce Poulette

    - cubes of marrow and tarragon; sauce Bonnefoy

    B. Made with poultry velouté plus...

    - cream and cooking juices of champignons; sauce Suprême

    - white wine and juice from green herbs; sauce Chivry

    - sauce Suprême and glace de viande; sauce Ivoire

    C. Made with fish velouté plus... cream plus... white wine plus...

    - sweated shallots and tomato; sauce Duglérè

    - peeled halved white grapes; sauce Vèronique

    - Shallots, tomato and champignons; sauce Brèval

    - Mussels, shrimp and champignons; sauce Ostendaise

    3. Tomato sauce

    Made with mirepoix of carrot and onion, bacon left overs, grease and flour or white roux, tomato puree or fresh tomatoes or both, bouquet garni, garlic, white fond or poultry fond, s&p.

    Is mostly used on its own but their are a few derivatives

    Tomato sauce plus...

    - julienne of champignongs, truffel, ox tongue, ham and Madeira wine; sauce Milanaise

    - chopped onion, garlic, glace de viande, tomato concassé; suace Portugaise

    4. Demi-glace and poivrade

    A. Demi-glace plus...

    - reduction of chopped shallot, red wine and garniture of cubed marrow; sauce Bordelaise

    - reduction of chopped onion, vinegar, white wine and mustard; sauce Robert

    - julienne of ham, truffel, champignons, ox tongue, Madeira wine; sauce Zingara

    B. Poivrade

    Is a variation on demi-glace used for game dishes. Mostly made with wild fond.

    Some derivates; Poivrade plus...

    - cream and Cognac; sauce Diane

    - cream and Cognac... and red current gely; sauce Grand-Veneur

    - cherries; sauce Badoise

    - half Poivrade/half Grand-Veneur; Sauce Arlequin.

    5. Sauces based on oil

    A. Vinaigrette

    B. Mayonaise

    Some derivates; Mayonaise plus...

    - mustard, chopped; fines herbes (fresh herbs), onion, gurkins, capers; sauce Remoulade

    - same as above, adding chopped hardboiled eggs; sauce Gribiche

    - lemonjuice and lightly whipped cream; sauce Chantilly

    - ketchup, whisky or cognac, Worchester sauce, cayenne pepper or Tabasco; sauce Cocktail

    - cooked brains, parcely and lemonjuice; sauce Italienne

    5. Sauces based on butter

    A. Sauce Hollandaise

    Some derivates; Hollandaise plus...

    - lightly whipped cream; sauce Mousseline

    - orange juice and julienne of orange zeste; sauce Maltaise

    - Sherry wine (Jerez) and whipped cream; sauce Divine

    B. Sauce Béarnaise

    Sauce finished with chopped tarragon leaves and chopped chervil, never parcely!

    Some derivates; Béarnaise plus...

    - glace de viande; sauce Foyot

    - concassé de tomates or tomato puree; sauce Choron

    C. Shellfish Butter

    D. Beurre blanc

    Sometimes also called "Beurre Nantais". There is a difference. Beurre Nantais has no cream in it.
     
  20. chefedb

    chefedb

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    I really can't believe the school teaches that mayo and vinaigrette are parts or components of mother sauces. Maybe in school you use a double boiler to make Hollandaise, if you did this in a commercial setting the rest of the line guys would shake their heads.

           Schools are wonderful , I should know I taught in 3 of them, but reality comes when you go out in the trade. Just because 1 instructor says this is the way it is, does not make it gospel. And by the way the school last year that was voted tops was The French Culinary Institute in N.Y. and rightly so with the very distinguished award winning  chefs running it. When you graduate and enter the real world, you will see so many things opposite what school teaches you'll be amazed. School is basics, thats it.

          Mayo and vinaigrette are from everything and book I have seen refered to as dressings not sauces.