I can't believe the information some of you are sharing........

caterchef

Banned
188
11
Joined Oct 12, 2009
And there are things that we did in the past, that we should have never done and shouldn't try to do again. When I think about the fact that the statin drugs like Lipitor, Mevacor, Crestor, Zocor...are prescribed by the millions because of  the American epidemic of heart disease, due to atherosclerosis, and how we used to slowly poach fish in goose fat, my own LDL numbers spike. There's a tremendous amount we old timers can and should learn from the youth in the industry. We have to listen when they're talking, too.
 
/img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif  I don't understand where you are coming from "this is a food forum" not a drug forum.

I was refering to making our own stocks and cooking fresh vegetables instead of frozen.

Where I took my apprenticeship in a 300 room hotel the only freezer  we had was in the pantry for ice cream. When we had to do an ice carving it was about an hour before the event that the ice was delivered. and I have never heard of poaching fish in goose fat. "yucK"

And the only drugs we had in the kitchen was aspirin for a headache.

When I do listen when they are  talking they are usually "asking for more money or time off "or"can I have a steak for lunch or when are we going to air condition the kitchen"

If you are refering to the younger so-called chefs with their "cookbooks  and degrees" I think they still have got a lot to learn yet, although some are trying, so are "too smart already"/img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif
 
704
21
Joined Apr 17, 2006
I don't think talent has an age. There are both young and old people out there who have tons of talent in this field. This business is all about constant learning. If you don't continue to learn, you will be left in the dust. What I do see in some of the younger people though is a penchant for "extreme" in their flavoring. For instance, I like a dish with spice to have a slow burn on the back of my throat. Most spicy dishes produced now burn my lips and tongue so bad I can't taste anything for hours, so I avoid these dishes when I am out. There doesn't seem to be any place for subtle flavoring left in today's cuisine. That's why I always think a "taste" should be at least three bites. That way as the flavor lingers on your tongue, you can tell if it's too salty etc. for someone eating a whole portion. I make a soup that's more or less a thin shrimp etouffee. The first bite doesn't taste like all that much. As you swallow, you get that slow burn I mentioned earlier. Your tongue starts to pick up the different flavors and you're thinking, wait, let me taste that again. The flavors start to build, and the heat increases in the back of your throat. By the third bite you're hooked and start to really shovel it in. Customers love that soup when we have it. It doesn't give up everything it has in the first bite.
 
294
15
Joined May 20, 2009
I can't ignore this, sorry ......SUGAR in tomato sauce !!!!..say it isn't so.....please OMG! The Italian mamas who invented "THE SAUCE" are rolling in their graves!
Me neither....do you usually ignore me?
Ummm...  well...  aah......yes!     Is there a rule?

Perhaps, he was just denegrating grandmothers in general but...

http://www.epicureantable.com/articles/atomato.htm

or

http://goingglutenfree.blogspot.com/2007/07/chinese-sweet-tomatoes.html

They are a fruit after all.
That's so cool...your a Kiwi I never noticed on your threads ....what a wonderfull place. My children's father is from Auckland..and we bungy jumped there!...Food is soooooooo expensive!
am a kiwi.

it is....
Wow !.....?.    ...and you got pregnant? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif

YES!.... Ed, was saying 2.99 for chix brst I think I'm paying ...USD 4.45!
 
6,367
128
Joined Feb 1, 2007
I can't ignore this, sorry ......SUGAR in tomato sauce !!!!..say it isn't so

Where do these "rules" originate? The Sicillian grandmother from whom I learned to make red sauce always included sugar, so as to prevent bitterness.

Maybe you want to tell her she was wrong? Not me.
 
2,171
90
Joined Jul 30, 2007
within my sicilian family, we used cinnamon, and red wine, which in turn sweetens the sauce while cooking, much like sugar, well wine is sugar really...never met  2  italian families who didn't argue about how to make the 'sauce' and who made it best....i remember very loud vocal arguments, in very rapid italian, over almost every sunday dinner....

after reading this very interesting thread, albeit  at times maybe a tad too much testosterone,(joke), it got me to wondering...where are our mentors now, our past influences?...forgione, greer, waxman,lydia,tower, jean-louis, waters..not only did they influence me, but they influenced a whole country...a whole food revolution/evolution began...they made food interesting and fun and not so 'uptight', for lack of a better term.....are they still cooking? teaching(i hope), living the pura vida somewhere? we all need to do our part to teach, nuture and share...we've got to engage in each other and share our ideas...

my two cents,

joey
 
523
18
Joined Mar 9, 2010
Me neither....do you usually ignore me?
Ummm...  well...  aah......yes!     Is there a rule?

Perhaps, he was just denegrating grandmothers in general but...

http://www.epicureantable.com/articles/atomato.htm

or

http://goingglutenfree.blogspot.com/2007/07/chinese-sweet-tomatoes.html

They are a fruit after all.

am a kiwi.

it is....
Wow !.....?.    ...and you got pregnant? /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif

YES!.... Ed, was saying 2.99 for chix brst I think I'm paying ...USD 4.45!
LOL....touche...I don't think I have ignored you...and yes you  Kiwis have a  charm about you...that gets girls..... well in the family way...hahahahaha    /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I don't understand the whole sugar sweetening the sauce concept...considering tomatoes are sweet ...depends on the ones you use. Basil is sweet...I only sweeten with natural vegetables and herbs in the cooking process like carrots, onion, sweet red pepper.I have worked for Italians for years ...Banquet Halls, Caterers to Fine Dining. Notta one used sugar.

Whatever makes your boat float I say do what works if ya lika the sugar...add the sugar ..no recipe is set in stone.

I say make it just like mama used to make and you canna notta go wrong..if ya know whatta mean ...lol
 
G

Guest

Guest
well you do what floats your boat and makes your guests happy... i ate at a horrendous Thai place that goes far too heavy on the sugar, in my and my families opinion, but a family came up after their meal and told the chef how great everything was... and the restaurant is successful.
 
49
12
Joined Jul 19, 2010
Sugar should be subtle!  Especially in red sauce.  Red wine is the way to go in my book.  Maybe a little dash of brown.

I'm frickin' Irish as hell though, so what do I know.  My sauce is always awesome though.

And greyeaglem - I totally agree about the heat factor.  I don't like other cooks even controlling the heat in my food, so I never get hot stuff unless I try somebody's dish first.  And I LOVE hot stuff.

I love this thread.  I knew it would get great feedback.  /img/vbsmilies/smilies/drinkbeer.gif
 
G

Guest

Guest
well i dont add sugar, i just cook it for hours until it turns sweet.. and its a sweet that you dont get by simply adding sugar, plenty sweet for me though. best tomato sauce i ever had. like a lot of things i have eaten in my life, i didn't really like tomato sauce until i made it. problem is i dont have time to make it... if i want a pizza, i'm not about to make my own crust and sauce, i just dial up a pizza place and order light sauce.

i love spicy food, so i always try what people consider to be the hottest... usually it is pretty lacking, but thai food and hot wings sometimes get it right. i am the ghost pepper hot wing eating champ at a wing place, but that is a bit much for every day eating... i prefer just a tad less spicy. when i cook for anyone, i keep the heat to a minimum... just enough to add another dimension to the dish. of course, some people cant even handle black pepper, so you gotta be careful.
 
704
21
Joined Apr 17, 2006
Also, cheeseNbacon, I love your screen name. If you were cheeseNbaconNbread crumbs, we would all have to bow down as that is the holy trinity for covering up/ fixing stuff. Didn't turn out right; doesn't taste good? No problem, add some cheese and bacon and you have a hit. Doesn't look so good? Throw some bread crumbs on top, put it back in the oven to brown and they won't be able to load it on their plates fast enough. Have something that should qualify for Federal disaster assistance? No problem. That's why God made bacon, cheese and bread crumbs. Load 'em all on, and youl'll get your own food show. I was at a friend's house one time, and in the process of checking on the Thanksgiving pumpkin pies, her mother managed to dump one upside down on the oven door. I voiced my dismay, and she said "Shhh, don't worry about it, I'll fix it and they'll never know." I couldn't see how, but I had also never seen a true genius at work. She shovelled the filling off the oven door back into the pie, covered the top with walnuts and then sprinkled some sugar over the whole mess. She was right. You never saw such a good looking pie. It was the first pie they dug into, and anybody who didn't get a piece whined about it. Now I know why God made walnuts. Oreos too. You can hide anything under a layer of crushed Oreos.
 
Last edited:
5,516
183
Joined Apr 3, 2010
Sugar, no sugar \,whatever taste good and whatever you and your clientel are happy with . There is no right or wrong way here.
 
6,367
128
Joined Feb 1, 2007
well i dont add sugar, i just cook it for hours until it turns sweet..

A matter of choice, Huy Bui, which I have no argument with.

What I'm having trouble with is the dogmatism portrayed by some posters. The shock they exhibit if anybody does something which violates the culinary rules they live by, and which, in their minds, were written on high in stone.

The fact is, not only is the addition of sugar to tomato sauce common, it's not even confined to North America. For example, Michelin Star holder Nino Graziano is just one of many Italian chefs who include sugar in their tomato sauce.
 
294
15
Joined May 20, 2009
Gypsy ...glad you enjoyed that one....hoped you would!  /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smiles.gif

With the tomato/sugar thing I'm not shy to adjust with it if the dish needs it (or that particular can /img/vbsmilies/smilies/eek.gif ) or not if I'm using a couli to cut the richness of a dish. Or if going off reservation with chilli, ginger, lemongrass etc. some palm sugar might find its way in  /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif.

I do stand by the 'rounding out' thing as with mayos. I have a pet peeve about hollandaise made with unreduced vinegar or even just lemon juice (no depth)...I use a 2:1 wine rdctn for the rounded sweetness and finish with lemon juice.             .....no, I don't add sugar, H.B.
 
G

Guest

Guest
it all comes down to personal preference... i agree people shouldn't get worked up about the use of sugar/ not. if everyone had the same taste, then sure i can see there being hard rules to cooking... but that is not the case. 

i actually don't reduce vinegar (so no peppercorns) for hollandaise and skip lemon altogether. i never liked hollandaise and making it the proper way did not taste good to me, nor anyone else in the room. so i made it my way and it tasted good to everyone including my chef-instructor. (and it was easier, which is always a bonus) from then on, i always made it that way and had nothing but praise. i just hit it with white pepper to make up for lack of peppercorns and it turns out i need far less salt than if i reduced the vinegar. still im no fan of hollandaise and i am glad i could skip those calories and fat, so i can indulge on pork belly and foie gras, instead. lol.
 
5,299
778
Joined Oct 10, 2005
I've seen it done with sugar, with honey, loaded with carmeized onions, with Parmesan rinds, with Reggiano rinds, with Prosciutto rinds, with.....Meh, whatever works, works.

That being said when I was washing dishes waaay back when, it was common for the Greek restaurants to add a stick of cinnamon in the tomato sauce.  If done correctly, it does add a nice touch, don't particularily care for it personally, but it is kind of nice.
 

caterchef

Banned
188
11
Joined Oct 12, 2009
/img/vbsmilies/smilies/chef.gif  I don't understand why we are making such a big deal over a little sugar.

If you have put enough in it that you can taste it, you have put too much.

It's only supposed to take the edge off the acid in the tomato.

The same as white pepper, if you can taste it,you have put too much.

You should only be able to tell if it is not in it, the same as salt.

A little sugar also awakens the taste buds, like the glutamate in MSG.

As I said in another post, I keep a gallon jug of simple syrup on line for that purpose.

labled  Chef's LFE for "Liquid Flavor Enhancer" spiked with a touch of vinegar

to keep the bartender out of it and a little Egg Shade in case they loose the label./img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif
 
49
12
Joined Jul 19, 2010
Also, cheeseNbacon, I love your screen name
Thanks man!

And you know what?  A little sugar shouldn't mean a thing... ESPECIALLY when it comes to a damn red sauce.  Do whatever you want. 

Throw a cake in it if it tastes good.  I don't like cake though....
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom