How to multiply a cookie recipe by 8?

Discussion in 'Pastries & Baking' started by cookielane, Aug 13, 2015.

  1. cookielane

    cookielane

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    Hello

    I have a cookie recipe that I am having problems with. I need to increase the recipe size by 8 times. I thought I could literally just multiply by 8, but that isn't working out to well. My cookies are coming out flat and dont hold together well. I have tried increasing the amount of flour and baking soda. I have even tried baking powder which I don't like at all, taste horrible. I am going to try and increase the number of eggs next. Changing the size isn't an option since I am using a 40 qt. mixer. Also I am using a convection oven that is running off propane.

    Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Or a link to a site that does the conversion for me? or previous thread?

    Thank you!!!

    K
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2015
  2. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    I could give you suggestions to do this or that but without seeing the recipe it would be like spitting in the wind.
    Have one question tho.... are the base batches coming out ok in your oven?
    Personally hate to bake with propane.

    mimi
     
  3. panini

    panini

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    2 questions.

    1.  Is this an all butter recipe? if not, what type of fat are you using?

    2.  Are you chilling the dough before scooping and baking?

    3. Did you cut back on sugar? may need to.

    4. Spraying the pans? use less.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
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  4. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    Saw your many questions re ovens and was sort kinda thinking you are new to the biz?
    Prolly have experience but are finally gonna do your own thing and make a place for yourself, be your own boss, right?

    If I am wrong just ignore the rest.

    Not all recipes can be multiplied without tweaking stuff.
    Some can and I am sure your wish yours was one of them lol.
    I learned my craft basics from my Gma Van (miss you Gma!) then from there worked (believe me it was work...started out cracking eggs lol) for the hometown bakery until time to leave home for nursing school.
    Took a different path in hospitality but never stopped baking (or learning).
    I get the feeling you might benefit if you had a mentor of sorts.

    Like I said before don't mean to diminish whatever knowledge you already have or disrespect you in any way.

    mimi
     
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  5. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    pan.... that was 4 questions.
    Lol.

    m.
     
  6. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    Unless you can quickly form and bake them all at the same time, multiplying by 8 won't work because your baking soda leavening will give up before you bake them. As you've discovered. 

    Baking soda starts reacting as soon as it's wet. The wait time while you form them is already factored into the recipe. Trying to form and then wait to bake 8 batches is using up all the leavening. 
     
  7. panini

    panini

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    With all due respect. I have 100's of cookie recipes that call for baking soda. I have never formed and baked. I always retard the dough and sometimes for a long period. Most cookie recipes call for the baking soda mostly to give the cookie color.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2015
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  8. luc_h

    luc_h

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    I heard my name.....?!

    Without a recipe and method as @flipflopgirl mentioned, I don't have much additional info to give here.

    When multiplying a recipe like you have done, I think chilling the dough becomes an important step as @panini has mentioned.

    As for baking soda, if there is no acid in the recipe (cookies usually don't have an acid), it will not readily react in the uncooked dough.

    If your recipe depends on some amount of leavening (like a cake cookie), for a retarded large batch dough, a double acting baking powder could give you better results.

    Good luck!
     
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  9. cookielane

    cookielane

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    Thank you for your help.

    yes, they come out fine. I thought maybe it was the oven as well,so i tried a single batch. and they turned out perfect.

    I cant give away the recipe... so this will be tough to get help.

    but I have tried chilling the dough, freezing the dough.
     
  10. cookielane

    cookielane

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    Thank you so much for your help. :)
    1. Yes, only real salted butter. Challenge Dairy brand.

    2. I have tried chilling and freezing neither one helped.

    3. I havent cut back on the sugar... I will look into that. I only use brown sugar and a small amount of light corn syrup. I eliminated white sugar to make them softer. (when making a "single" batch they turn out fine) I know that too much corn syrup can cause it. So maybe thats still the culprit. 

    4 No spray, we use parchment paper.
     
  11. luc_h

    luc_h

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    do you measure in volume or weight?

    Brown sugar is tricky measuring in large volume.

    Luc H.
     
  12. cookielane

    cookielane

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    Thank you for your help!

    I have tried baking soda, and the taste was too bitter.

    I unfortunately can't give the recipe away. Perhaps if I cant resolves this I will have to hire a consultant.

    So beside the sugars, egg and butters are those not acidic enough for larger batches?
     
  13. luc_h

    luc_h

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    None of the ingredients you mentioned are acid (enough) to make the soda react.

    See my previous post... do measure by weight or volume?

    Luc H.
     
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  14. cookielane

    cookielane

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    Yes I am somewhat new to the business. I have a had a small home based bakery doing online sales, but now have a mobile bakery with a 12 rack rotating Baxter oven a 40qt hobart mixer. So we are making 336 every 15 minutes or so. We bake and sell at festivals and special events now. :) People love our cookies and line up for them, even with how they aer turning out. But now we are going to ship online and I want to be able to use the same equipment and mix the same amount but the cookies are not strong enough for shipping. They are flat and break.
     
  15. cookielane

    cookielane

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    We have been measuring by volume, (base amount times 8) but we have weighed the amount and then prepackage based on the exact weight.
     
  16. luc_h

    luc_h

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    I may not be reading correctly:

    if you want to multiply a recipe you must first convert all your ingredients in weights then multiply those weights by 8 (the only exception maybe is eggs, I assume you use whole eggs those can easily be multiplied but the bigger you get, you will need to convert to liquid eggs and use weights).

    Luc H.
     
  17. cookielane

    cookielane

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    oh ok, I just had no clue really I am sure you didnt read anything wrong :)

    Ok so no I literally just did it by volume. (example 2 cups flour x 8 for 16 cups) yikes is that wrong then? I should have weighed the base amount (single batch) first..... I am such a newb lol
     
  18. panini

    panini

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    @Luc_H   is right on about converting to weights. Cookie, I would suggest you  measure out (as you do now) 2 single recipes. Then on a LBS. OZ. scale you mix each ingredient together and get the weight. I'm suggesting 2x because sometimes it easier to convert tsp. tblsp.etc.  to oz. It is also very helpful to use online help.  Just google in example:  4 Tblsp. to  OZ  . This will usually bring up a conversion calculator for you. Just put in the info and you're done. or it will give you a chart like below. Also, don't hesitate to weigh your eggs.

     So as to not waist money, why don't you scale up by 2x Batch. bake a double, check results. If ok, try a 3x. check results. You will see when the batter is getting weak. Lets say, one your 3x Batch.  You see they are starting to spread to much.  Then try a 3x. Batch using 3 parts unsalted butter and 1 part shortening, like crisco. This will not add more water like the butter will. It will also increase the burn point. Are you completely confused now? If so PM and I'll try to explain. Don't fret, you will get it. When the recipe becomes stable, you're not done. You then have to do some more trial and error and go buy commercial pack ingredients and try those with the recipe. Doing that volume you'll probably buy things like butter and short  in 50 lb. block

    Conversion Table [US]



    [​IMG][​IMG]  [​IMG][​IMG]  [​IMG][​IMG]  [​IMG][​IMG]
    10.5  2613  5125.5  7638
    21  2713.5  5226  7738.5
    31.5  2814  5326.5  7839
    42  2914.5  5427  7939.5
    52.5  3015  5527.5  8040
    63  3115.5  5628  8140.5
    73.5  3216  5728.5  8241
    84  3316.5  5829  8341.5
    94.5  3417  5929.5  8442
    105  3517.5  6030  8542.5
    115.5  3618  6130.5  8643
    126  3718.5  6231  8743.5
    136.5  3819  6331.5  8844
    147  3919.5  6432  8944.5
    157.5  4020  6532.5  9045
    168  4120.5  6633  10050
    178.5  4221  6733.5  12562.5
    189  4321.5  6834  15075
    199.5  4422  6934.5  17587.5
    2010  4522.5  7035  200100
    2110.5  4623  7135.5  250125
    2211  4723.5  7236  300150
    2311.5  4824  7336.5  500250
    2412  4924.5  7437  750375
    2512.5  5025  7537.5  1000500

    •  
     
  19. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    Do exactly what @panini suggested in his last post.
    When you get to the weak batch stop and back up.
    Then just make those strong batches and combine until you have enuf to fill the oven.

    His previous tip about retarding (holding in fridge for a few days to a week...maybe more) is an old timer secret of sorts and really can up the quality of the cookie IMO.
    Gives the flavors time to marry (as well as the wets and drys).

    May save you from having to pay someone to fix the formula.

    Anyways best of luck with your expansion !

    mimi

    I would really love to try this cookie of yours.
    PM me with your site addy?
    Promise I won't snatch your recipe lol!

    m.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
  20. luc_h

    luc_h

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    That is what I would do since your 1X recipe is perfect.

    get yourself a decent electronic scale that you can tare.  Tare (zero out) your bowl on the scale then measure by volume your first ingredient, take the weight then tare before the next ingredient and so on. Multiply each weight ingredient by 8. That will be your starting point for your large batch. You should be close to your initial recipe, if not, adjust from there.

    Chilling the dough is still a good idea.

    Luc H.