Honing/steeling options

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by Jedicat94, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Jedicat94

    Jedicat94

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    Hey.

    What do you use to realign your edges? I read people use ceramic and steel rods, some like to strop on bare leather and some swear on fine whetstones for this task.
    For a home cook like me, does it even matter? Are the differencies so subtle that it takes a long time pro to tell which end result is better?

    I have white ceramic (MAC I believe, 1200 grit?) rod, old leather belt and this self made borosilicate glass rod which I longitudially grooved with 170 grit wet-sandpaper. Can't really tell the difference of the end result, but I noticed that glassrod doesn't remove much, if at all, metal. At least in comparison to white ceramic rod which gets black after few knives. That's why I most often choose to use borosilicate. My knives are rockwell 55-61.

    Any opinions one way or another? Also interested whether I should use more fine/coarse grit to groove glassrod instead of 170? And are steel rods more ideal to western knifes them being softer metal?
     
  2. millionsknives

    millionsknives

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    Thats a large range of hardness. I only use stones on knives 59+.

    Harder steels dont need edge realignment. They are either good or they need sharpening.
     
  3. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

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    I steel my knives of all origins. I find that the steel works even with knives that are harder than the steel itself.

    I only use stones to sharpen, and only use strops after the stones.

    Ceramic rod sharpens a little and I only use that when I'm too lazy to do proper sharpening.
     
  4. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

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    I dunno, just that my steel says it's HRC 61.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  5. brianshaw

    brianshaw

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    Here is some data on hardness. (I keep seeking more of this kind of real testing to supplement the specs and internet chatter about hardness or "bad heat treatment" but never find any.)

    http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/187/Knife-and-Sharpening-Steel-Hardness

    I once was an ardent steeler -- German/French stainless steel knives and American/French carbon steel knives using a ribbed German steel -- but gave that up for a ceramic hone and a smooth steel. But when the ceramic hone doesn't do enough "touch up" then its immediately to stones.
     
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  6. rick alan

    rick alan

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    The numbers for hrc shown in the link taken as a whole don't make sense, especially the 20 point difference for the two 4 star sabs. Knives are very difficult to measure because of surface irregularities and thinness making it difficult to positively anchor so there is no flexing or other movement when the point bears down. A proper test would have the knives potted in a hard wax or low-temp alloy like ceramet, and I don't believe that was done here, nor many points taken along the length and breadth of the blade, which can vary considerably. I wouldn't trust those number, though the higher ones are going to be close, movement here will show up as a lower than actual hrc.

    The sharpening steels are likely all over 62hrc, though certainly not as high or higher than 70 which is file hardness and about the practical limit of ordinary high carbon carbon steels.
     
  7. brianshaw

    brianshaw

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    I dunno Rick. All I know is that it’s the only data out there. There must be more data somewhere.

    But the 14-inch does look like a statistical outlayer for whatever reason.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  8. rick alan

    rick alan

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    Oh and as far as steels go, Benuser talked a lot of us away from steels and to stropping on stones instead, and I for one have never looked back since.
     
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  9. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

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    Similar to brianshaw, I only use super fine or completely smooth steel. No groove-y stuff.
     
  10. chefross

    chefross

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  11. Jedicat94

    Jedicat94

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    I'm getting feeling that you guys use knife quite a lot daily. For me it's like 15-30 mins every day or every other day. So I propably don't have to worry about honing too much. Although I have to say that knife feels sharper after few light strokes on glassrod (vg 10 cleaver).

    I read that thread where stone stropping was discussed and going to try that as well.

    About that couple questions popped in mind:

    1: Which leaves better edge for veggies, Shapton Pro 2k or 5k? And do I need to strop on top of it? Got synthetic pad and chromium oxide powder (1 micron?) to go with it for that purpose.

    2: When stropping on stone, how many swipes average you feel you need for regaining the edge? Or do you test on paper after every few swipes or something?

    Sorry for all them Q's , but I'm trying to find that critical line where basic knowledge turns into hi-end stuff which only helps you marginally forward anymore. Not that I wouldn't care about it, I'm just not that far yet.

    Chefross : That DM stell seems so nice. Maybe some day :)
     
  12. Jedicat94

    Jedicat94

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    Would cork of the winebottle do the trick, or do you mean stone? (deburr)
     
  13. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

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    The bane of my life indeed. I find that it happens more with AUS-8.

    I usually strop repeatedly trying to get rid of it out of anger, and ended up with a not so sharp knife that had to be sharpen again. And the loop of frustration continues...
     
  14. Jedicat94

    Jedicat94

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    Wow. Sounds like I chose excellent steel to begin this journey with. Well, c'est la vie...
    Can I even detect the enemy with naked eye then?
     
  15. rick alan

    rick alan

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    The worst burr former I have encountered is a defective Shun I have, HT near the tip was apparently screwed up during the sharpening/buffing process. The thickness of the wire edge it produces is beyond believing. It looks perfectly debuured untill you make a few cuts with it, then the heavy sucker rolls to the right, and always to the right.

    The only way of dealing with it is to sharpen, deburr with longitudinal strokes, then micro-bevel. Then, use it till it rolls again, deburr, sharpen without going far enough to raise a burr, and microbevel again. After 3 or 4 tries at this it will finally take a stable edge. Trick from there is not to sharpen to a burr formation, because when you do that you have to begin the cycle all over again. Fortunately I only use this knife for slicing, and I guess largely I've kept it for the challenge.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  16. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

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    More like Chef's Choice electric sharpener. LOL. I sharpen everything with it; except for my carbon steel, powdered steel, and traditional Japanese knives, which I use stones.

    By the way, I did not know that a perfect angle is the cause of the wire edge. Thank you for the info.

    This means that only one of my sharpeners produce a perfect angle. I used to think that this one sharpener is defective, because I almost always get a wire edge when using it. Turns out it's the complete opposite of what I thought!

    Lucky, I have no problem with my Shun's.
     
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  17. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

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    What is the reason behind stropping and deburring in the middle of your sharpening progress? What benefits do you get?

    I mean, when I sharpen on the stones, I just flip my knife over once the burr forms and move to a finer stone when the burr forms again, and I repeat this until the final stone. That's when I deburr and then strop.
     
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  18. Pat Pat

    Pat Pat

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    Interesting. I never saw that as a potential problem before.

    I shall try it your way next time and see if there's any differences.

    I always aim for the best edge I can get, but at the same the, I want to get it in the quickest possible way.

    Not that I'm not patient, I'm just lazy. LOL.