Home Chef needs advice on Knives

One of the most important set of criteria for anyone choosing a new knife or new knives is how they're going to integrate the knives into their sharpening regimen. It's a sad fact of life that all culinary knives need regular sharpening -- some more than others. Factory sharpening is not a great solution for most people because of the turn around time.

Cutco knives have some strong supportes; but if you want to use an actually sharp knife (as opposed to something more like a saw) they aren't very good; especially not for their price.

Their biggest problem is the steel alloy used to make the blades. It's 440A, which was never very good, hasn't got any better, and over the years has been superceded by many superior alloys. The best things you can stay about 440A is that it's very stain resistant and it isn't as bad as some other alloys -- 420J2, for instance.

At any rate, 440A doesn't take a great edge under the best of circumstances, and loses it easily.

As you know Cutco makes knives with two different edge geometries. One is a "never needs sharpening" serrated they call "Double D." The other is a regular smooth edge.

The Double D edges will function for a long time before needing sharpening -- but never very well. You can't get really clean cuts with it, and it's difficult to cut fine as well. The regular smooth edges, like the one on our GF's santoku, dull very quickly compared to those on knives made from better blade alloys.

Forschner's Rosewood and Fibrox lines represent a big step up in quality compared to Cutco; and I believe they're less expensive to boot. There are much better knives than the Forschners, but they're considerably more expensive.

If you want to discuss the Forschners, or options in a different price range; or have any other questions let us know. There are several very knowledgeable people on CT.

BDL

 

Here's a "quality test" for you to take:

Take a regular potato, a large-ish one, and take your knife and cut in half lengthwise.

Did the knife wriggle or squirm (bend or flex) when cutting the potato?

If it did, it didn't pass the "Quality test"

 

I have some *utco's that were a gift. My wife likes them. About all I can say for them is that they are good about replacing them when they die. They cost 5-7x more than they should as they are lower in quality than forschner, Sani-safe etc. The biggest reason I can see for an average home owner to buy them is free sharpening. Shun does that as well and you can buy a much higher quality Shun for the same price. I'm not a big Shun fan either but even their base lines are vastly better than *utco.

 

If you cook at home four or more times a week, in order to maintain your go to chef's knife (or santoku, or gyuto) as very sharp or better, it's going to need about six actual sharpenings (as opposed to "touch ups) a year -- and to be "profiled," about once a year.

If you can settle for barely sharp, you can cut that down to about four sharpenings. Most people never used a knife sharper than barely sharp. Twice a year by a professional sharpener and "touch-ups" on a steel, or a "V" stick system like a Sharpmaker or a "Crockstick," means your knives will be fairly dull about half the year. You mentioned suiting the sharpening method to the knife, and there's a lot of truth to that. Many very expensive knives -- especially those manufactured in Japan -- won't do their best unless taken to a moderately high degree of polish. And polishing is something very few budget "systems" do.

By and large, Japanese manufactured western style knives (the shapes you're used to -- including santoku, btw), can be made much sharper and stay sharper longer with a better sharpener but less other maintenance than similarly priced European knives. The Euros (and Americans) take maintenance -- usually in the form of steeling.

There are a few Japanese stainless lines I usually recommend in the Cutco price range (fairly expensive, by the way). Chief among them are MAC Pro; and, if you can live with a little bit of flex, Masamoto VG.

It's easy to overemphasize the practical superiority of a good Japanese knife compared to a good German -- like Wusthof, F. Dick, Messermeister, or Henckels; or a German type like Lamson Sharp (made in America). While most of the nuances fall in favor of the Japanese, you can get a lifetime of great performance from a German knife; and in addition the Germans are manufactured to very high standards of fit and finish, and almost all of them have very good to excellent handles to boot. Their biggest weaknesses are that they're relatively heavy, the "go to" chef's knives have a relatively clumsty profile; and they're all made from less-than-stellar alloys -- either X50CrMoV, or something very much like it.

Additionally, there are some relatively value-priced knives that bring plenty of performance along with them; these include Forschner Rosewood and Fibrox and the better Dexters to name three. FWIW, the Forschners are X50CrMoV as well.

There's no one best knife brand, and I don't know of anyone who can point to any one in particular and say "this is the one your wife should use," at least not anyone who knows much about knives and has her best interests at heart. Also, there's no good reason to go to a lot of trouble or expense choosing the very finest knife of some profile you'll only seldom use. The Santoku/ Chef's/ Gyuto is a knife worth investing in. If you're buying a petty instead of a parer, so is that. And, if you use a slicer a lot, that is too. You can buy good parers and bread knives relatively inexpensively.

At this stage, my thoughts about the "go to" knife are:

1. You can get away with using a fairly inexpensive and easy sharpening system and still get a lot out of Forschners, so that would be one recommendation. I prefer the Rosewood handles to the Fibrox.

2. Everyone who tries MAC Pro loves it. In addition, they have a great US presence and an excellent warranty. If you're willing to invest the money and/or time in a good sharpener I have no doubt you will too.

3. A good, German type knife could be perfect for you.

4. If your wife does 97% of the cooking and she likes her santoku, figure out a way to keep it sharp without sending it out of the house 3 weeks a year and be happy. Kinves are nice, but a happy wife trumps.

Anything you can do to narrow down your selections would help me help you.

BDL

 

Henckels and Wusthof regular "classic" handles are very good for almost everyone. Ikon is nice, but expensive. Ikon uses the same steel as Wusthof's other forged lines, but ground to a 15* angle, and, in the case of some shapes, profiled to French/Japanese shapes.

You can get all the Ikon advances, but with a "Classic" handle in the (discontinued) Le Cordon Bleu line. You can still find some NOS LCB.

At or anywhere near the Cutco price thare are knives made of much better steel.

The pick of the litter in bread knives is the MAC 10.5" Superior Bread/Roast. But it's expensive; right around $100. For bread/pastry a $25 Forschner is awfully good.

Not only desirable, but safer for a lot of tasks. You definitely want something in the 3" - 6" range. A knife called a "petty" is a very hot trend with pros right now. It's really just a long, regular style (couteau office) paring knife -- or you might think of it as a "utility" knife with a smooth edge. Whether or not you want one instead of a parer, a parer or both depends on your own style. There's no right or wrong.

Cutcos are fine steak knives; but they're very, very expensive compared to other attractive serrated knives.

Good thought.

Stainless for you then.

"Manual" can mean a lot of things. One is freehand sharpening on whetstones. You can get three (coarse -- 400, medium -- 1000, fine -- 3000) Naniwa SS for around $100.

It will take you about 20 - 40 kinves to learn to use them well. Personally, I've sharpened thousands and am still learning new things and still improving. After you start getting the hang of it, you might want to add an ultra-fine polishing stone like a 10000# if you've got really good knives.

Still manual, an Apex Edge Pro kits run from a little less than $150 to more than $250 depending on the kit. Better knives call for a higher polish and a better kit. Outside of the price, the Edge Pro is a bit of a pain to take down and store.

2 stage Chef's Choice machines cost under $100, while 3 stages will set you back more than $100. These are the easiest to learn and the most convenient to use. They have their limitations, but if you're intimidated in any way by the other systems -- they're the way to go. FWIW, they make different models for "Asian" and "European" knives. If you choose Chef's Choice, you'll need to get the right model for kit.

I've been freehanding for more than 45 years; and have used many if not most of the other major systems during that time -- sometimes as the primary sharpening method. I'm starting to think it doesn't make much sense for a beginner to learn to freehand if (s)he can afford the Edge Pro -- partly based on the availability of newer, and better abrasives over the past year or so. I used a Chef's Choice for almost a year when my stones were "lost," and still think they're great.

BDL

 

"Cutcos are fine steak knives; but they're very, very expensive compared to other attractive serrated knives"

I have these and they are DD edge which means there is no way to sharpen them other than sending them in. They aren't half bad but the hanldles are cheap plastic. They run $112 for four. The Viking or Cusinart sets in places like Bed Bath & beyond are far better and about 1/4 the price.

 

Briant73:
I do not recommend Cutco cutlery. They are owned by Alcas Corp. They are overrated and overpriced! Their sister-company, Ka-Bar, sells the Union Cut.Co. and Dog's Head sets, which resemble the MAC Professional Series. Neither do I recommend Chicago Cutlery, as the company became defunct in the 1990s, and the brand-name is now owned by World Kitchen, and production has been outsourced to China ever since.
I personally own the LamsonSharp PRO cutlery line. However, you might want to consider their Stamped cutlery line, since it would be less expensive, and lighter than forged cutlery. Nonetheless, they do offer a FREE Sharp For Life Program for their Forged knives. They have a Factory Outlet Store. The lowest prices that I have found online, is at: Cookware.
I know that it seems to be a daunting task, to be shopping for kitchen cutlery, as there are a myriad of brands to choose from, but nevermind the brands which others tell you to buy. Buy what you can afford, and like to use, on a daily basis.

 

Just curious, but I'm wondering in which ways you think the Ka-Bars "resemble" MAC Pro. To my mind, if only because the alloys and ergonomics are so different, they're not similar enough for a meaningful comparsion. Not seeking to quarrel, just trying to find out what you're thinking.

BDL

 

For advice on sharpening, we just did a whole video series on Japanese vs. German knives and how to sharpen them both.

Go to behindtheknife.com and view the posts from December 15th through the 18th. Lots of good info.

Lisa Rogak

 

From a purely safety standpoint, knives should never be left in a sink full of water. You may be able to get away with this with a dull knife, but you are inviting a trip to the emergency room if you do this with a sharp knife, whether it is a MAC, Wusthof or any other brand.

 

I have a MAC Pro chefs knife and cannot recommend it enough. It is far and away better than any German (Henkels or Wusthof) knife that I have used.

That being said, you really do need to maintain it, but this goes for any knife. You should not put your knife in the sink, whether or not it is filled with water. Sinks are made of hard metal and will easily mess up the edge on your knife. It would be probably be better to leave the knife on the board uncleaned for a little rather than leave it in a sink of water.

 

Would it survive? Yes. Would it probably have been dulled or even chipped? Yes, but that goes for all cutlery. Would you be risking slicing deep into your finger when you reached into the sink? Yes.

I'd keep all knives out of the sink.