Highest Possible Temp for Braising

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by funkmonkey33, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. funkmonkey33

    funkmonkey33

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    Hi Chefs and Foodies,

    First time on the site, and my first post.  I've been a long time home chef and foodie for years.

    I do a pretty mean braise.  Excellent beuff, and the best coq au vin you've ever tasted.  But it takes freakin' forever!  

    I've heard different opinions on how rapidly the braising liquid should be bubbling.  Julia says it should be just barely moving, maybe 3-5 small bubbles a minute.  That translates into the lowest possible setting on my gas burner.  I've seen it done a little higher as well, more like a regular low heat, in which the braise was more rapidly moving, maybe 15-20 small bubbles in a minute.  

    Generally, my braising times tend to take a lot longer than the recipe claims it will.  So I'm guessing I'm using too low a temp.  For example, Jaques boeuf bourguignon  recipe claims 90 minutes of braising time, using flatiron.  Now If I did that recipe I know it would take at least an hour longer than that.  

    So how high can I go?  Of course, what I really want to know is how high can I go and still get a delicious, tender result? Oven or stovetop, I'm open.  

    Thanks!

    Aaron 
     
  2. french fries

    french fries

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    Don't go any higher. You want a simmer, not a rapid boiling. I braise with barely 3 bubbles. I've never made boeuf bourguignon with only flat iron, I use the whole chuck, but it takes me closer to 2h30, just like you. So it sounds to me like you're doing it right. 

    On the other hand, coq au vin is quick. Once the chicken goes in the braising liquid it should be 20-30mn, unless you're actually using a "coq" (tough old rooster). 

    If you want faster, consider using a pressure cooker. I have, but I like the traditional method better, as it's easier to taste, adjust, check the temp, etc.... plus it makes the whole house smell divine. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

    We're entering braising season people! I love it!
     
  3. kaiquekuisine

    kaiquekuisine

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    I agree with FF. 

    The method really is called for a slow cooking process. 

    The pressure cooker tactic works , but it only takes 1 minute to get screwed. 
     
  4. teamfat

    teamfat

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    First off, welcome to Cheftalk.  Great stuff to be had here.

    I also have to tack on a lot of extra time to most braises, as Salt Lake is over 4,000 feet in elevation, and a low simmer occurs at a lower temperature.

    mjb.
     
  5. funkmonkey33

    funkmonkey33

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    Yeah, 20-30 minute coq is not happening.  More like 90 minutes.  Maybe I'm cooking it too tender? I'm cooking it until the leg and thigh meat is basically falling off the bone (I'm omitting the breasts these days, freezing them for another use).  

    The pressure cooker technique I think I'll save until I move to Colorado, which will be in a couple of years.  

    Aaron
     
  6. french fries

    french fries

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    Yeah that's not coq au vin, that's pulled chicken. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/lol.gif  

    Ok so cooking time depends on various things, including: 

    - the temp of the chicken when you cook it (room temp?)

    - the age and size of the chicken (I use smaller 3.5 lbs chickens)

    - your taste. 

    In my experience, and for my taste, for a room temp 3.5 lbs chicken, anything over 30mn is overcooked. 
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  7. funkmonkey33

    funkmonkey33

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    Interesting.  So yours doesn't fall off of the bone then.  Can you describe the texture and consistency of what you consider perfectly cooked coq au vin? Legs vs. breasts of course.

    Thanks.

    Aaron
     
  8. kaiquekuisine

    kaiquekuisine

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    Oh also , if you use a pressure cooker , and cook for over 30 minutes , the bones will melt XD . 

    Has happened to me , its not pretty or remotely tasty. 
     
  9. french fries

    french fries

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    It's just cooked to temp, but still moist and still clinging to the bone. I wish I could give you a better description. It certainly is not fall of the bone or "fork tender" like chuck after a 2h30 braise. 
     
  10. french fries

    french fries

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    I wonder how that works, Kaique, or if it depends on the chicken maybe? I've made chicken stock in my pressure cooker before, and cooked it for 50mn before and the bones didn't melt. They became very fragile and easy to break, but they didn't melt. 
     
  11. kaiquekuisine

    kaiquekuisine

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    I once cooked in a 20 liter pressure cooker the bones were very small so they became rubbery -_-. 

    I have cooked pigs feet for 2 hours and they almost melted <_< you would pick up a bone and they would start to shatter quickly 

    I guess they didnt melt , they shattered XD  or crumbled , would be more appropriate XD. 
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  12. french fries

    french fries

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    Ah yes that would be close to my experience as well. They were still whole when I opened the pressure cooker, but trying to manipulate them ended up in them shattering quickly, yes. I guess for stock that's alright, but I certainly wouldn't want that kind of texture on a coq au vin. 
     
  13. redhead81

    redhead81

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  14. redhead81

    redhead81

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    The highest oven temp I would use would be 300f. Are you covering the braise with a lid or parchment lid? Remember you have to have time to let the connective break down. This takes time and no recipe will tell you. This takes time to develop your technique. Hope this helps. Ryan
     
  15. chefedb

    chefedb

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    Any temp or style you want, but DON"T BURN as this will give the final product a bad taste. There is a vast difference between searing and burning