Gesshin Uraku vs Richmond Addict 2 AEBL

Discussion in 'Cooking Knife Reviews' started by crispy, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. crispy

    crispy

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    I'm a home cook looking for a 240mm gyuto to replace my 20 year old Wusthof chef as my main knife. I'm not looking for a new hobby or a "starter" knife, but something that can give me years of good service with proper care. I will get a combination stone and give hand sharpening a try. Anyway, for possibly arbitrary reasons I've narrowed my search to these two knives. Both get good reviews as capable all-round knives at attractive prices, both are house brands of the two e-tailers that get mentioned most often on this board. They are comparably priced. My assumption is that I can't go far wrong with either one, but I am curious whether any of the habitués of this forum (from whose posts I've learned a lot) have any thoughts on the comparison before I pull the trigger. Thanks in advance for any insights.
     
  2. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Uraku is thinner, has a lower profile, and better F&F on the blade.  The Addict is tall -- very tall -- and is available in a range of alloys all of which are better than the Uraku.  It's made OEM for Richmond and Richmond blade cosmetics can leave something to be desired. 

    Both are extremely functional, high-value knives.  Can't lose. 

    I think Phaedrus -- who occasionally posts oh CT -- has extensive experience with the Addict, but am not sure how often he checks his PM box. 

    You can ask about it on CKtG forum, but most of us there have a predisposition to like Richmond knives. You can also ask at the KKF, but the hostility there to all things related to CKtG and Richmond is palpable; and there's also a predisposition to like anything related to JKI.  Unfortunately, the other knife forums seem to either be moribund or to reflect a very limited range of opinions. 

    The moral of the story is that you have to be careful about making sure that whomever you talk to has even a shred of objectivity. 

    Talk to Jon Broida at JKI about the Urauku and Mark Richmond at CKtG about the Addict.  Both are amazingly candid about their own stuff and both view the chance to help people like you with these sorts of choices as the best part of their job.  

    BDL
     
  3. crispy

    crispy

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    Thanks, BDL. Very useful information. I favor the thin, low profile of the Uraku. How important in practical terms is the superior alloy of the Richmond? (I am interested in the AEBL version.) Is there anything in this price range combining a shape similar to the Uraku and alloy comparable to the Richmond?
     
  4. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    How important is the difference in alloy?  Not very. 

    Is there another knife which combines the profile of the Uraku with the alloy of the Richmond at a similar price?  Yes and no.  The Sakai Takayuki Wa Gyuto is made from AEB-L like the Richmond, but because of different heat treating requires more maintenance.  I'm not quite sure how it compares to the Uraku in that respect. 

    It has a very good profile, excellent F&F, sharpens very easily to a really good edge,  but at $190 I'm not sure if you'd say it was in the same price range as the Uraku or Addict.  Really nice knife, but there are lots of choices at around that price.

    If you're going to stretch the budget to near $200, you should take a look at the 4-1/2 oz Richmond AEB-L laser, and its 7oz brother, the Richmond Ultimatum. 

    I have a 51200 carbon Ultimatum and just love it for it's versatility and feel on the board.  It retired my carbon Sabs, taking their place in the rotation with the Konosuke lasers. 

    BDL
     
  5. crispy

    crispy

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    Very helpful. Thanks again.
     
  6. coffeemike

    coffeemike

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    BDL: Wait - and not to threadjack this, I'd love to know what you decide, Crispy - but something outdid your carbon Sabs? I'm impressed. Can you expand on this?

    Mike
     
  7. crispy

    crispy

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    One additional question: I understand that the Uraku has a fairly asymmetrical grind--I've read 70/30. I'm only dimly aware of what that means, but I'm concerned that it will complicate sharpening. I'm also not sure whether it is compatible with my back-up sharpening plan, which is to rely on one of the 15-degree edge Chefs Choice models.
     
  8. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

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    Posted by Crispy  
    70/30 isn't a lot of asymmetry, and a CC can handle it -- as long as you don't mind 15* bevel angles. 

    I think though, that when you step up into the Uraku class, you're cheating yourself of what the knife can really do by using something like a CC, pull-through, or (God forbid) a "Sharpmaker." 

    As with all things Gesshin, talk to Jon. 

    BDL
     
  9. crispy

    crispy

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    Thanks, again BDL. I've ordered the Uraku and am now thinking about whether I should get the Edge Pro Apex as my sharpening system. Unfortunately, even the cheapest two stone Apex kit doubles my investment, and I'm not sure whether it will meet basic sharpening needs. Perhaps grist for another thread.
     
  10. mhlee

    mhlee

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    How do you know that "all" of the alloys used in the Addict series are better than the Uraku?  Have you compared each and every Addict to the Uraku?
     
  11. sigma

    sigma

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    You seem very angry.
     
  12. mhlee

    mhlee

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    Angry?  No.  I simply asked these questions to find out if a person who makes such a broad, blanket statement can, in fact, support his statement with facts and personal experience instead of hearsay, conjecture or assumptions. 

    Do you think that it's okay to make a blanket statement of opinion such as what BDL wrote ("is available in a range of alloys all of which are better than the Uraku") without personally comparing each and every alloy that the Addict is offered in to the Uraku? 
     
  13. sigma

    sigma

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    Do I think it is OK to make such a statement?  You bet your pretty little bottom I do.  From reading his posts BDL seems very knowledgeable and I am sure he has tried the other alloys in other knives, at least, so he should have a really good sense of what is what and his comments are valuable because of that.  
     
  14. pahi53

    pahi53

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    So, where do you get your information, from the manufacturer? or from blogs like this?  Before I make any purchase online I check out the  blogs/forums and I always! seek out reviews from Amazon.Com. They sell just about everything that I cannot even imagine. IMHO "BDL's opinions Rock!
     
  15. mhlee

    mhlee

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    First, you do know that BDL has a "relationship" with CKTG, the seller of Richmond knives, right?  http://www.cheftalk.com/t/69164/line-cook-knife-set-recommendations#post_376813

    Second, according to his previous posts, he's actually never used the Gesshin Uraku: http://www.cheftalk.com/t/75456/looking-for-some-japanese-steel#post_425856

    Third, according to your post, it sounds like you believe that the same alloy used by one maker is the same quality if another maker uses the same alloy.  Is this correct?
     
  16. mhlee

    mhlee

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    No.  I buy knives and come to my own opinions and conclusions.
     
  17. sigma

    sigma

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    Are you in law school or something, because this reads like somebody who is trying to sound lawyerly.  Also, you are trying to expand the issue so as to make a point when one is not available to you.  His statements are about different steel alloys and his impressions of them.  He doesn't go so far as to say alloy is determinative, and neither do I.  He implies, and I believe, that it is a significant factor in a knife.

    So, anent your first, let me ask you a question.  Do you have a professional relationship with Japanese Knife Imports, or do you go from website to website defending and propping them just so somebody there might like you?
     
  18. popcorny

    popcorny

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    mhlee appears to be a KKF regular who seems to hate on Richmond, and I suspect has just come over here to troll. I suggest you don't bother feeding him.
     
  19. mhlee

    mhlee

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    I'm an attorney but that has nothing to do with anything here.  I also happen to be a serious knife enthusiast. 

    You seem to forget that you're the one who commented about my post.  I just wanted to see if BDL would respond. 

    That's why I asked the questions I asked.  I just wanted to know if he's used the Uraku and compared it to all of the steels in the Addict line since he's the one that said that all of the alloys in the Addict line are better than the Uraku. 

    And, no, I have no professional relationship with Japanese Knife Imports.  But, I have bought numerous items from Japanese Knife Imports.  Jon sells great products and provides great service.  I also don't need to prop them up.  
     
  20. mhlee

    mhlee

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    I didn't realize this was a place where only Richmond products can be discussed. :)
     
     
    spikedog likes this.