from Canada

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thank you mr. sinclair for your article many years ago that seems to have helped some of the surviors of tuesdays attacks.

please see article posted: http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/cgi-loca...c&f=9&t=000450

new york was reduced to a hellish hole filled with the souls of the innocent.
I have spoken with an air traffic controller, stock brokers,
firefighters, families of the missing.

i fear we have all lost friends
and family in the most profound way. i cannot imagine what will happen next.
no one, no country, no tribe, no human should have to go through this again.
no one should support policies that cause such things. there are better ways to share the planet.

nyc has orderd 11,000 body bags, i understand more or less may be needed.
my wish is to require non at all and start tuesday morning all over again.
i have edited this post.

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: m brown ]

[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: m brown ]
 
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A friend sent me that earlier today :) Makes ya feel proud. I heard that at a changing of the gaurd at Buckinham Palace today they played the Star Spangled Banner.
 
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what a terrible thing has happened and yes I falt sick when i heard but this is a cookery site not some blow your own trumpet american tribute dont forget here in England thousands of innocent people have died thruogh terrorism from the IRA which is sponsored mainly from the states I know its sad and im as angry as you all are but please can we go back to food talk anyone cooked chilli pineapple ????
 
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Pompeyams, it's true that there's suffering everywhere, and no country is completely innocent of blame. But if this is a community it's going to reflect people's feelings. There are always general topic forums in Cheftalk and I hope it stays that way, because then we get to know and understand each other 360 degrees.
 
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I am offended by your remarks Pompeyams. In the span of an hour more people lost their lives on tuesday than at Pearl Harbour and on D-Day combined! Forgive us for being effected by it!
 
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Pompey:

This is a cooking site -- but the "anything goes" discussion section. Please familiarize yourself with the site guidelines before you risk being rude again.

As for your laughable assertion that America is the country that carries the lion's share of blame for Irish terror deaths ... awww forget it, I don't have the energy.
 
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pompeyams,
You have missed the point.

what we in America just went through, no one should have to go through and you having gone through WWII and the IRA should know this more than anyone.

PS late night cafe is free discourse not food related.
 
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Pompeyams,

I am truly disgeraged by your thoughts.
This site stands for everything American and free in this world.
We must never compare one persons horror to another.
I was thinking today how lucky I am to have such a respectful and loving group of people to vent with.
God bless America.
Brad
 
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I have received that article by email several times over the last two days. I haven't decided whether it is a comfort or makes me sadder.

Let us all find peace again.

Tossing hurt back and forth helps none of us heal. Let us all stand together, members of the human race.
 
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there was no date on the commentary so i thought it was recent. thank you nanna for pointing that out.
we have however seen images of children with guns and candy dancing in the street celebrating the attack, these images the media has stated were from areas of the middle east torn with war. that is what i took the reference to mean.
please understand i have since edited out what i thought i had in the first place.

[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: m brown ]
 
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If someone had asked me on Monday, if I agreed with these "turn the other cheek" sentiments, I would have said yes. Having stood 10 blocks away and seen the World Trade Center towers in flames and seen people jumping from them, I no longer do.

How do you convince those with no regard for their own lives to care for the lives of others? Their is, in my mind, only one way to stop them.
 
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Suppose there is a whole spectrum of people in the Islamic nations, which appear to be the ones with some of the people most p.o.ed at the U.S., and on one end there are pious, sincere people who love and serve Allah, and on the other end are the nutcakes who do this kind of horror, and we start killing at that end of the spectrum, how in the world do we know how far up to go before stopping? Because I'm sad to say I think KyleW is right. The only way to stop someone who is not afraid to die as they try to hurt you, is to kill them. There was a guy on Boston news the other night, a professor from BU who made the point that we don't need these people to like us, or respect us, just fear us, so that they know that if they hurt us, the consequences will be severe. I really have no hope that this war can be won. We lost a friend, Herb Homer, on flight 175.
 
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Marye, in order to answer the question What would MP do, I need to know who MP is. My first guess was Mary Poppins :)

TBH, I am very sorry to hear about your friend.

This is a perfectly circular discussion. There is no right answer. As TBH points out, if you start at the lunatic fringe of the spectrum, at what point do you stop? But, as Marye points out, if you turn the other cheek you get slapped again.

In this case we have an individual, Osama Bin Laden, who has made it his mission to punish the United States for percieved wrongs. He is well financed, estimated net woth of $300MM, and very influential. He has been linked to the bombing of US embassies in Africa, the bombing of the USS Coles and now Tuesday's unspeakable horror. In my opinion he, and those who harbour him, must now be brought to justice. Hopefully Texas style justice.
 
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I am very sorry about the loss of your friend TBH. If only all those who practice Islam could stand in a straight line running from tolerant and truly observant of the Koran to, on the other end, fanatic, then we could know clearly which were a danger to us. The fact is, it's impossible.

I think at times like this it might be a good thing for all of us, and especially those who are chafing to start slinging bombs, to step back and consider why people in other parts of the world hate us so much. Be a little circumspect before rushing headlong into vengeance. Should we let our pain and suffering cloud our willingness to look inward at how our own zenophobia, ignorance and insensitivity to other cultures, and prejudice may have engendered these feelings in others?

I live just north of NYC and commute to work there everyday. I witnessed the entire horrific attack on the WTC from less than a mile away. My neighbor's son goes to a public elementary school not 1/2 a mile from my house called Kahlil Gibran Elementary School. Yesterday, some ignorant yahoos called in a bomb threat to the school threatening to "paint the streets with your Islamic children's blood" in retaliation for Tuesday's attack.
If the caller had bothered to inform himself a little, he would have known that the school was a PUBLIC school with a diverse student body, that Kahlil Gibran was a Lebanese Christian Maronite, and one who wrote the most beautiful poetry of love, tolerance and freedom of spirit. I've witnessed at my son's school, sidelong, suspicious looks at a Islamic mother who happens to wear a long dress and veil. These subsequent acts make me fear that those terrorists have succeeded beyond their imagining by making us turn upon ourselves, in our pain, suspicion and anger.

Let's comfort each other and wave our flags, not only to express our resilience, but also to remind us of the values and basic rights that our country is founded on-freedom of speech and religion.
 

pete

Moderator
Staff member
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Joined Oct 7, 2001
Who was it who once said "Living by the philosophy of an eye for an eye does nothing, but leave everyone blind"? (I have paraphrased this as I can't remember the exact quote) I wish I could feel this way, but I can't. I can't think of turning the other cheek. If we don't act soon and decisively, all sorts of other madman will think they can get away with attacks like this, and then how many more innocent people will die? I don't relish the thought of taking innocent lives in order to pursue these barbaric fiends, but we have no other choice than to take this to its final conclusion. I can't believe that with all of our vast technology and weaponry we can't (when acting decisively) eliminate a person like bin Laden or Hussian without taking too many innocents lives. This we should have done in the Gulf War, but we didn't take that final, decisive step. As a consequence, many innocent people have died and suffered due to the blockades imposed on Iraq. The average person in Iraq used to enjoy one of the highest standards of living of any non-western country, now their educational, medical, and social institutions are in ruins. Is that sparing innocent lives? If we had made that final push during the War and eliminated Hussian, innocent people would have died, but more than are suffering and dying now because of our nonactions? I don't think so. Is this to happen in Afganistan also? Will we blockade them and suround them with sanctions, causing the already poor to become even poorer? Or in the long run will we save lives and a standard of living, by decisively eliminating a clear threat to world peace? I know this is a difficult question to answer. Either decision brings about the death of innocent bystanders. I wish that there was another solution, but I do not see one.

In this tragedy, I have been uplifted by the outpouring of compassion, help and support that Americans and the whole world has shown to NYC. Story after story, of people driving halfway across the country, offering their services to those in need. Working nonstop for hours on end, in hopes of saving a life. I had almost begun to have a glimmer of hope for humanity until the new wave of newsreports started coming in. Those stories of bigots, racists, and rednecks using this tragedy as an excuse to, beat and batter Arab-Americans. To destroy their homes and businesses. Sometimes I really wonder if "civilized man" has a chance in ****, or if "he" is doomed to being moronic forever?

Thank you for listening to my tirad. I shall step off of my soapbox, and apologize to anyone that I might have offended. I came to the boards tonight with no intentions of even discussing the events of the past week, but I suddenly found myself no longer in the mood to discuss food, yet needing to say something. Speak my mind and unload. My deepest regrets to those families who lost someone close to them, and my best wishes to all of those still searching, hoping to pull surviors from the brink of tragedy.
 
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