Frangi tart base lifting when baking

Discussion in 'Professional Pastry Chefs' started by nezaboy, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. nezaboy

    nezaboy

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    My frangi tarts have a problem where the base is lifting off the sheet, creating a bubble under the case. The pastry is lined and filled with frangi and fruit, and then chilled before baking. Any idea what causes this? I'm baking in a deck oven
     
  2. flipflopgirl

    flipflopgirl

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    I have never had that happen but maybe someone who uses a deck can weigh in ....

    Try docking and if that doesn't help add on a short blind bake.

    mimi
     
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  3. chefpeon

    chefpeon Kitchen Dork

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    I'm pretty sure there is no yeast involved here, assuming it's a short crust, and frangipane has no yeast in it. I think the OP said the bubble is forming underneath the crust between the pan and the bottom of the pastry, not in the frangipane itself, so I don't think overwhisking is the problem here either.

    I tend to agree with @flipflopgirl. Although I would be hesitant to dock the pastry before filling it with frangipane for fear the frangi might leak out the bottom. Frangi is a huge leaker. Myself, I would dock and par bake the crust in its pan, let cool a little, remove from pan, fill with frangi and bake the rest of the way. 
     
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  4. nezaboy

    nezaboy

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    It's a sweet paste baked at 180c. This doesn't happen with pecan pie for example, but with the frangi big air bubbles under the party. I'm lining rings onto silicone paper. Really odd
     
  5. pastrymd23

    pastrymd23

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    Dock it with a fork.
     
  6. davide flore

    davide flore

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    Try not greasing the pan, and sure docking the base! :)  what's kind of shortcrust are yu using? can you post the recipe?
     
  7. panini

    panini

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    My guess, for all it's worth, is that you're using a tart pan with or without removable bottom. Rolling the dough, cutting a circle larger than the pan, placing it on top and then bringing in the sides and firming up the sides.

    With a deck, you should cut the circle the same size as the bottom. Press it firmly on to bottom to push the air underneath to the sides and out. then use a snake for the sides.

    Now, this is just me,

    but I wouldn't use any grease, blind bake, turn it on it's side, etc. I would retard the short alone. Fill and chill or bake off.

    I would use Quillion instead of Silicone if available. Their much cheaper and work better.

    I truly feel you're just trapping air under the dough. The 90 degree angle prevents the the air from getting out.

       The pies generally have a outward angle on the pan, so the air rides out with the butter, plus you usually start in the middle pressing down outwardly.

      Test it, take the short when soft and use small chunks and press them in place from the middle out, then the sides.

    Just remember, it's not Rocket Surgery./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif  

    BTW a good Frangipane torte, the crust should be blended with the filling. Blind baking is ok but the separation of flavors is not desireable, for me at least.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  8. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    For me the making and baking the shell is a three day effort:
    1. Day one I make the pate brisee, shape into a disk, and wrap with plastique wrap.  To improve hydration  the wrapped dough rests on the counter top for a full hour prior to refrigeration for up to a couple of weeks.
    2. The dough is then rolled out and placed into whatever mold you prefer.  Unwrapped, the dough then sets on the counter top for an hour or so prior to placement into the fridge for at least overnight - still unwrapped.  Leaving the dough unwrapped allows it to further dehydrate and relaxes the gulten formed from rolling out.
    3. My preference is to blink-bake all crusts.  Covered with parchement paper and filled with pie weights, the dough is blind-baked for 45 minutes with the oven set at 375-425F.  The crust is removed from the oven and the parchement and pie weights removed.  The crust is placed back into the oven to allow further drying for at least 10 minutes.
    4. The dough is allowed to cool and then brushed with an egg wash.  It's placed back into the oven until browned to your liking, at least 10-20 minutes.
    Using this method I have avoided bulging and AND the crust remains tightly tucked into the corner of the mold.

    This method is utilized by Jacquy Pfeiffer, master patissier, and discussed in his book entitled The Art of French Pastry.  However I have modified the baking times to my own liking.

    HTH
     
  9. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    IMHO the bulge comes from possible moisture trapped beneath the floor of the shell.  Both the "bulge" and the moisture will dissipate/disappear if the shell is blind

    baked long enough and for me it takes 45 minutes to dissipate that trapped moisture.

    And Jacquy Pfeiffer gives excellent instructions on how to and how NOT to tuck the raw dough into the corner of the tart mold.

    (EDIT)  I apologize for having posted here as I am not a pro...just a well seasoned home cook.  I won't do this again.  sheesh.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  10. panini

    panini

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    @kokopuffs, my question about your method, which is great for a baked shell, but how are you going to bake a filling like Frangipane, brown butter, etc. fillings without overcooking or burning the shell?
     
  11. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    The baked shell can be filled and baked again using a "barrier" to prevent the exposed crust from over browning.  I've done it with apple tarts.