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Forgiving, easy care, mid to high price Japanese knife

17K views 147 replies 5 participants last post by  cheflayne 
#1 ·
Hi eveyone,

Completely stuck with Sakai, Gesshin, Kanetsugu, ,Kanetsune, Fujiwara Karefusa FKM series, Misono, etc etc etc
Please, share your thoughts on which knife would best suit:
-for beginner and low intermediate user, that is the knife should be forgiving mistakes;
-easy to care (user has experience with stones on low medium level);
-does not cause any smell when cutting food, etc,
-is rust-prone;
-is sharp out of the box
-is durable
-is comfortable and appealing in looks
-is in mid to high price range (we are going to but 3 knives - chef's and sort of 2 parings - 1 longer, 1 shorter - plus stone, rod and rest, and it should be below 500$ preferably);
-is not known to cause some problems..

Thank you much in advance!)
 
#117 ·
Those Japanese, sayas, are fine for transport, not much otherwise, as they don't stabilise humidity fluctuations. I would avoid above all knife guards with a felt lining: once it gets moist — and that will somehow happen — it will keep it and cause rust. Better make you own one with card board and duct tape.
 
#119 ·
Those Japanese, sayas, are fine for transport, not much otherwise, as they don't stabilise humidity fluctuations. I would avoid above all knife guards with a felt lining: once it gets moist - and that will somehow happen - it will keep it and cause rust. Better make you own one with card board and duct tape.
I see. What about the knife rest then? It can be magnetic or with holes for knives to be inserted in.
 
#123 ·
European oak is fine when your blades aren't extremely hard, which isn't your case. No risk of chipping. American oak is much harder. A lot of boards are from Asia — Indonesia, especially — and you won't be sure about the used species.
With end grain the quality of the handwork will be essential. Good soaking will cost as well. I've no idea what the second board is like. No way a decent end grain can be produced in Europe at that price.
 
#124 ·
European oak is fine when your blades aren't extremely hard, which isn't your case. No risk of chipping. American oak is much harder. A lot of boards are from Asia - Indonesia, especially - and you won't be sure about the used species.
With end grain the quality of the handwork will be essential. Good soaking will cost as well. I've no idea what the second board is like. No way a decent end grain can be produced in Europe at that price.
I see. Why are you ignoring the knives rest question?)))
 
#135 ·
Thank you for your kind words, but it's all common knowledge with a few prejudices as a personal touch.
Those magnetic stands may make sense for a collector with 15 gyutos for example. Have seen them in some pro-kitchens where everybody puts his own, most used knives — say, a chef's and a slicer, or two chef's — on it. Otherwise, perhaps to impress the neighbours?
Have no experience or knowledge about the JCK stones. In Japan there are only a few makers, selling all numerous series under different brands. I wouldn't worry when buying with Mr Iwahara. Some JCK stones are soakers, some are Splash&Go. The 1000/4000 is a Splash&Go, the 2000 a soaker. It shouldn't determine your choice. It's only important not to soak a Splash&Go.
For you, the first question were whether you are going to use them with other, likely neglected and thickened knives or only with the new ones. In the last case you may consider a one and only 2000, because your knives already come with a first sharpening, and this stainless doesn't win that much with high grits. If you're prepared not to wait until the knife is really blunt and act in time a single 2000 would be a good option with these knives. A 1000/4000 combination is a bit tricky. Most novices find it hard to work with a 4000. It requires a really light touch, as there's already an edge, which is likely to get crushed if you apply the same pressure as you're likely to do with the first stone — which is perfectly fine as a bit of steel has to get removed. Not so with the next stone. A very common complaint by new sharpeners is that after the first stone the edge was sharp, after the second one is was blunt again. The edge was simply crushed.
 
#137 ·
Thank you for your kind words, but it's all common knowledge with a few prejudices as a personal touch.
Those magnetic stands may make sense for a collector with 15 gyutos for example. Have seen them in some pro-kitchens where everybody puts his own, most used knives - say, a chef's and a slicer, or two chef's - on it. Otherwise, perhaps to impress the neighbours?
Have no experience or knowledge about the JCK stones. In Japan there are only a few makers, selling all numerous series under different brands. I wouldn't worry when buying with Mr Iwahara. Some JCK stones are soakers, some are Splash&Go. The 1000/4000 is a Splash&Go, the 2000 a soaker. It shouldn't determine your choice. It's only important not to soak a Splash&Go.
For you, the first question were whether you are going to use them with other, likely neglected and thickened knives or only with the new ones. In the last case you may consider a one and only 2000, because your knives already come with a first sharpening, and this stainless doesn't win that much with high grits. If you're prepared not to wait until the knife is really blunt and act in time a single 2000 would be a good option with these knives. A 1000/4000 combination is a bit tricky. Most novices find it hard to work with a 4000. It requires a really light touch, as there's already an edge, which is likely to get crushed if you apply the same pressure as you're likely to do with the first stone - which is perfectly fine as a bit of steel has to get removed. Not so with the next stone. A very common complaint by new sharpeners is that after the first stone the edge was sharp, after the second one is was blunt again. The edge was simply crushed.
Not only knowledge matters but also how ready the person is to share it and explain everything in such details that you do. Plus, your knowledge is really deep which is not so often met. Whatever I ask, you have a university lecture prepared👍

About stones. I bought 400/1200 and 2000. Is the first one splash and go? Do I get it right that if a person wants to take good care for initially factory sharpened knives he is to use 2000 once a week appr? Still he may need those 400/1200 after, say, a year?
 
#136 · (Edited)
The discussion of magnetic holders was humorous but perhaps too harsh. They are actually very convenient and easy to use. Fragging the knife on the mount could lead to scratches. Rolling the knife toward its spine releases the knife easily. I mount many of my knives "upside down" to resist any unconscious urge to just grab and slide. Corrosion… never experienced that but might be a concern with carbon blades not properly dried. Or maybe in high-humidity climates.

And, yes… great for impressing neighbors and guests. Only problem I ever experienced was when the housekeeper once used a chef knife to pry open a bottle, bending a knife tip.

Sayas, knife guards, and knife bags are great for storage and transportation but I find them inconvenient when needing a knife during prep or cooking.

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#138 ·
The discussion of magnetic holders was humorous but perhaps too harsh. They are actually very convenient and easy to use. Fragging the knife on the mount could lead to scratches. Rolling the knife toward its spine releases the knife easily. I mount many of my knives "upside down" to resist any unconscious urge to just grab and slide. Corrosion… never experienced that but might be a concern with carbon blades not properly dried. Or maybe in high-humidity climates.

And, yes… great for impressing neighbors and guests. Only problem I ever experienced was when the housekeeper once used a chef knife to pry open a bottle, bending a knife tip.

Sayas, knife guards, and knife bags are great for storage and transportation but I find them inconvenient when needing a knife during prep or cooking.

View attachment 71568 View attachment 71569
The discussion was based on Benuser 's personal, obviously very vast, experience, opinions always differ. As for us, we prefer to stay on the safe side because the guy would be very disappointed if he accidentally damages the knife. But your information is also very valuable and appreciated! I will keep in mind that if smth - the magnetics are not so dangerous if used properly. Very good looking knife stand you have! And I laughed a lot at the story with the housekeer. Its like a cleaner unplugging the devices in the intensive therapy because they need to plug in the vacuum cleaner. Good that your housekeeper didnt decide to open a metal can, say, with squids, with the gyuto knife))))))))
 
#144 ·
Now might be a good time to consider human behavior rather than logic. Perhaps "the guy" is growing weary of indecision and being led like a blind man by random internet experts, no matter how much they know. Perhaps "the guy" just wants his knowledge, experience, and desires to be given credibility. "The guy" sounds very frustrated.
Its a good time to get rid of emotions and just make best possible decision on which way of keeping is better. The guy, whatever frustrated he is, if any, will be more than happy. He trusts me and my particularity. So Im trying to do my best.

Small addition. These three knives are going to be used everyday on the kitchen for regular food preparation. So they must be easily taken and put back.
 
#145 ·
Ok… I’ll bite my tongue on the topic of relationships and respect.

So you’ve heard two different discussions on magnetic knife holders. What additional information do you need to enhance your current knowledge and facilitate your decision. No matter what you choose now you can, and most likely will, change in the future so don’t take it as a permanent decision.
 
#146 ·
Ok… I'll bite my tongue on the topic of relationships and respect.

So you've heard two different discussions on magnetic knife holders. What additional information do you need to enhance your current knowledge and facilitate your decision. No matter what you choose now you can, and most likely will, change in the future so don't take it as a permanent decision.
In order to speak about relationships and respect, you need to have full information, rather than selectively abstracting and making global conclusions from a tiny piece of information. Otherwise lets just keep technical. If you have nothing to add, then dont🙂
 
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