Sorry this may be a little long.....a little backround first, I've made pies in school (about a year ago though) and successful pate brisee, and this Thanksgiving I figured I would try out an apple pie. I tried to make a flaky crust. Attempt 1: I made a test pie by using the formula in Professional Baking; I used crisco shortening, cake flour, ice water, etc. and cut the fat into the flour until it formed large pieces. The crust turned out waaaay to crumbly. More crumb than crust really. I mixed in the water till the dough was moist and came together, later I thought I mixed in too much water as the dough was actually moist and somewhat sticky. Attempt 2: I thought my problem was too much water and maybe flour too strong as the formula called for pastry flour and I used cake. I used the same formula only I used lard, and to compensate for the stronger flour I used Calvados which is 40% alcohol (alcohol will not form gluten). I let the dough rest a couple hours but when I rolled it out it barely held together and the baked product was also extremely crumbly. The lard crust had great flavor but it was somewhat dry and crumbled completely. I'm starting to think the cake flour I used is too fine for a pie crust and the reason for my failure. Where did I go wrong?