# Dough Overheating

#### kokopuffs

I was told to watch out for overheating my dough while it's being kneaded in my KA mixer. Does this actually occur? Can you feel the dough's temperature rise?

[ April 20, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

#### momoreg

Yes, that can happen, but it takes a while. The only dough you would mix long enough to overheat is bread dough. And even then, I doubt it would ever get so hot as to kill the yeast.

#### thebighat

Every mixer has what's known as a friction facotr, which baker's take into account when they decide on a water temp to use for a dough. It's called the 240 rule- for a dough with a desired temp of 80 measure the temp of the flour, the temp of the room, add in the friction factor, and subtract from 240- that gives you the temp of the water to use. To find the friction factor of your machine, make a dough to a shaggy ball, take it's temp, then knead it to full development and take it's temp. that difference is your friction factor. In a KA it might not be huge, but in a big mixer it can be 30 degrees or so. There are also formulas to use to figure out how much ice you need per lb of water to get a given water temp. when I made bread full time we sometimes needed 20 degree water late on a hot summer night to get the right dough temp.

#### kokopuffs

Thanks, Bighat. It seems that for a one or two pound bread dough, I needn't worry about the friction factor here.

My KA is the Professional model; I knead bread at #2 speed as recommended by the instructions. About how long would it take to overwork the dough? I understand that overworking weakens the glutinous strands. Observations?

[ April 23, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

#### thebighat

I doubt you could overwork a dough in a tabletop KA, but you should see what 3rd speed on an 80qt for 15 minutes can do to baguette dough. The gluten can only extend so far, and then you have what's called breakdown. That dough used to get as hot as 90 degrees after being thrashed like that. There's a distinct change in the sound the dough makes hitting the sides of the bowl after about 9 minutes. It goes from a thud thud thud to a slap slap slap as the dough just seems to let go. I don't make bread like THAT anymore. That was our 45 minute baguette. I now use a formula that takes almost 20 hours. If you're concerned about overheating, take the temp before and after and make the adjustment with the water temp.

#### momoreg

A food processor also tends to make the dough hot very quickly.

#### kokopuffs

Thanks, Bighat. The instructions furnished with my KA say to knead their basic bread dough for about two minutes upon final completion of the mixing cycle. I find that my dough required more kneading time - like about 5 or 6 minutes. This became expecially true when using whole grains as in whole wheat flour.

Can you recommend any texts to consult that discuss information on mechanical kneading as opposed to manual kneading?

thank you and Momoreg in advance, Terry.

[ April 24, 2001: Message edited by: kokopuffs ]

#### pooh

I'm not sure but you might want to check Nancy Silverton's "Breads from La Brea Bakery". If you don't have access to the book, I can look tonight and post a few passages for you.

#### thebighat

The Making of A Cook by Madeline Kammans, maybe. I haven't looked at it for years, but I remember that's where I first read about overextensibility. I think it would be just about impossible to overwork a dough by hand.

#### angrychef

Try also Professional Baking by Gisslen.
Thanks for all the info., bighat. I always keep water in our fridge at about 35F, so when I make my focaccia the dough comes out nice and cool and has lots of time to ferment.

#### thebighat

Also check out On Food and Cooking by Harold McGee. It's got pages of stuff about gluten.

#### pooh

I think I have the same KA model. I do mixing/kneading process with dough hook only and I let it go for a good 10 minutes for white flour and a little more for whole wheat/while flour mixture. If you're afraid to knead for to long, after the 10 first minutes, you can always finish by hand. Your dough should ALWAYS feel smooth and silky, like baby's bottom...LOL

One recipe I use (white flour) is to add butter after completion of initial kneading. A bit scary since your dough falls apart but comes right back after 4-5 minutes of machine kneading. That's in Baking with Julia - White loaves, I think it's a recipe from Craig Kominiak. He has whole wheat loaf too! Very good.

Your right bighat! Madeleine Kamman is a good place to go. Read on this subject is quite exhaustive. And I don't know if Kamman said that or someone else, but I heard to that it's virtually impossible to overknead by hand!

[ April 25, 2001: Message edited by: pooh ]

#### kokopuffs

Thanks again, y'all. Pooh, it seems that dough falls apart from the hook only to reassemble within a few minutes later - after adding more flour or fat to the mix. Mechanical kneading is a totally different animal from manual kneading, the former requiring more astute observations.

One thing that I've observed is that my "mechanical" doughs turn out wetter than "manual" ones. Relearning breadmaking technique using a mixer entails some readjustment time, therefore.

#### pooh

It sure does, Koko. You should see what happens to my olive bread in the KA when I add the extra virgo to the mix! I much prefer finishing by hand, gives me a better feel where it's going...

[ April 25, 2001: Message edited by: pooh ]

#### kokopuffs

Yeah, after having made 3 or 4 doughs in the Kitchen Aid mixer, I get the feeling like I'm gonna' do some hand finishing/kneading anyway.