Discussing grammar with my friend and me [not I]

Discussion in 'The Late Night Cafe (off-topic)' started by amazingrace, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. amazingrace

    amazingrace

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    18
    Exp:
    At home cook
    It's not likely we'll ever be able to change any of the bad habits that have taken root, blossomed and are now casting their vile seeds everywhere,  including in mass media where one would rightly expect to see correct grammar, pronunciation and spelling.  Even teachers are ignorant in this area.  My dear neighbor is a retired school teacher.  An example of something she might say would be "George went to town with Jean and I".    That affects me like [or should  it be as?] fingernails on a blackboard! 
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2010
  2. tylerm713

    tylerm713

    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    35
    Exp:
    I Just Like Food
    Like would be correct in this sentence because there is no verb after like, therefore it is acting as a preposition, which is correct usage. However, if you had said "That affects me as if someone was scraping fingernails on a blackboard" then as if would be correct. This rule really counts more in formal writing. For a message board, no one is going to call you out on like vs. as. At least they shouldn't.

    BTW, props for using affects correctly. That's one that bothers me.
     
  3. petemccracken

    petemccracken

    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    158
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    The effect of the misuse of "affect" affects me in ways that I'm hesitant to describe because of the adverse effect it might have on the one who misuses "affect", or for that matter, "effect"! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif
     
     
  4. chrislehrer

    chrislehrer

    Messages:
    1,929
    Likes Received:
    126
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    If I were marking your paper, I would give you a very slight ding here.

    That affects me like someone scraping fingernails on a blackboard [implied: would affect me].

    That affects me as if someone were scraping fingernails on a blackboard.

    The latter example requires the subjunctive mood. Really, both of the sentences require it, but in the first case the verb of the dependent clause is implied anyway --- would affect me.

    On the words "affect" and "effect," I'm entirely in agreement with all of you.

    Don't get me started about "it's", nor about "their" as a singular, neuter, possessive pronoun (e.g., every student should do their own homework).
     
  5. tylerm713

    tylerm713

    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    35
    Exp:
    I Just Like Food
    Yeah, your right about subjunctive.

    My last sentence contains perhaps my biggest pet peeve in grammar. Your, you are.  Come on people.
     
  6. boar_d_laze

    boar_d_laze

    Messages:
    8,551
    Likes Received:
    193
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    You're also correct that the plural possessive, "their," was inappropriate for a single actor.  Indeed, every student should do its own homework.

    BDL
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  7. kyheirloomer

    kyheirloomer

    Messages:
    6,367
    Likes Received:
    129
    Exp:
    Food Writer
    The problem with using "their" as singular is understandable, though.

    Most people instinctively shy away from using "it" when referring to people. Once upon a time we merely used "he, his, etc." In other words, the masculine form held in both the male and general cases.

    Nowadays, of course, such usage is politically incorrect. Among other things this has led to confusion, ambiguity, and awkwardness of sentance structure as people struggle to find the right form.

    Personally, I find your general solution (i.e., using the female form in the general case) repugnant. All it does is reverse a cultural bias, without actually solving the problem.
     
  8. gobblygook

    gobblygook

    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    18
    Exp:
    I Just Like Food
    When so many people can't determine the difference between "lose" and "loose", or the difference between "to", "two", and "too", I give up on everything else. 
     
  9. oregonyeti

    oregonyeti

    Messages:
    2,260
    Likes Received:
    14
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    A panda eats, shoots and leaves.

    This is a great thread to have made a typo in.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  10. kyheirloomer

    kyheirloomer

    Messages:
    6,367
    Likes Received:
    129
    Exp:
    Food Writer
    BTW, props for using affects correctly.

    Grammer aside, I just can't keep up with today's abbreviations and meanings.

    This one has been turning up a lot, later. Please: What is, or are, props in this usage?
     
  11. amazingrace

    amazingrace

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    18
    Exp:
    At home cook
    Yes, inquiring minds want to know. 
     
     
  12. amazingrace

    amazingrace

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    18
    Exp:
    At home cook
    Other irritations: 

    1. Saying rout, when meaning route. 

    "What route [root] did the general take to rout [rowt] the enemy?"

    2. Data is not datta. 
     
  13. petemccracken

    petemccracken

    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    158
    Exp:
    Professional Chef
    And "data" is plural, not singular, that is "datum" (and THAT is why my Mother insisted I take Latin in high school!) /img/vbsmilies/smilies/crazy.gif
     
     
  14. ishbel

    ishbel

    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    40
    Exp:
    Cook At Home
    Don't know whether it's just Scotland - but the inability to spell definitely correctly. I even HEAR it spoken as DEFINATELY! n And lots of my students use that spelling in written work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  15. tylerm713

    tylerm713

    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    35
    Exp:
    I Just Like Food
    This is correct. However, in modern usage, I think it is often acceptable to use some singular Latin nouns with an "s" at the end. For example, the correct way to refer to more than one stadium would be a group of "stadia". However, most people accept the usage of "stadiums" as well.

    I really hate when people say "I could care less" or "I can't stress the importance of..." Both of these are counter intuitive, and anytime I hear someone say one of these phrases, I want to punch them. 
     
  16. amazingrace

    amazingrace

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    18
    Exp:
    At home cook
    OOPS! I'm guilty of this.  Even though I know the difference, that pesky A sneaks in there.  /img/vbsmilies/smilies/blushing.gif
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  17. amazingrace

    amazingrace

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    18
    Exp:
    At home cook
    This one has popped up recently,  and it's very irritating to me:

    "Suddenly the light bulb went OFF in my head, and I had a great idea".   Who started that?  When I get a great idea,  a light bulb goes ON! 
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010
  18. oregonyeti

    oregonyeti

    Messages:
    2,260
    Likes Received:
    14
    Exp:
    Home Cook
    Maybe a bomb went off?
     
  19. chefross

    chefross

    Messages:
    2,676
    Likes Received:
    348
    Exp:
    Former Chef
    My experiences as a manager had to deal with applications. I would always take the bad spellers and place them in a separate stack first, then read the ones with better grammar.

    When I found that ALL the applications had grammatical/spelling errors, I had to go back and try another idea to separate the good from the bad.

    With spell check and online dictionaries there is no excuse for bad grammar.

    Another word that gets me is:

    "irregardless."........

    ...or when people say..." On Saturday we's going to the city to see a movie.
     
  20. amazingrace

    amazingrace

    Messages:
    929
    Likes Received:
    18
    Exp:
    At home cook
    "My sister and I's dog ran away".    We know that's wrong,  but what is correct? 

    1."My sister and my's dog ran away" ... not

    2, "My sister and my dog ran away" ... looks like the sister ran away also

    3. "Our dog ran away" ... I like this only for it's simple correctness,  but it fails to define who "our" might be.

    4. share your own version
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2010