Cool stock immediately?

Discussion in 'Food & Cooking' started by kevin20422, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. kevin20422

    kevin20422

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    Just to review for the chick stock I am making I hit the first site on the block and it says after cooking (in this case it has 6-8 hrs, I dont know why) but it said to cool immediately in a sink of ice water.

    Is that just to not put it in the frig hot or is there some culinary reason it should be cooled ...............immediately...................

    I use dots to emphasis words as opposed to .............caps.............. I have heard caps are considered shouting and bad manners. Moi?

    I suppose if caps are like shouting then innuendos are like whispering?

    Accidental double letters would be like stuttering, right?

    Misspelling would be like gargling?
     
  2. cape chef

    cape chef

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    You have 2 hours to get it down to 70f,
    Always ice bath your stocks and buy an ice wand.
     
  3. kyheirloomer

    kyheirloomer

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    Quick cooling is done for food safety reasons, kevin. You want to get it past the danger zone (the temperature range at which bacteria grows fastest) as soon as possible.

    BTW, to emphasize things, look at the task bar when you post a response. You can boldface by clicking on the B, italicize with the I, and underscore with the U. Or even combine them in various ways.
     
  4. french fries

    french fries

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    My first chicken stock, I though "oh I can skip that step, put it hot in the fridge, should be fine". 5 hours later I opened my fridge, and not only was the stock still hot, the items placed around the stock were now hot too.

    So unless you want to turn your fridge into an oven, ice shock your stock. It doesn't take very long to get it down to a reasonably cold temperature, then you can put it in the fridge.
     
  5. ed buchanan

    ed buchanan

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    The faster you cool anything after cooking the better. You certainly don't want it to remain in a danger zone as it could possibly make you or someone else sick.
     
  6. cape chef

    cape chef

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    Take a peak at the servsafe site. It is important for all culinarians to be certified. I have been a proctor and teacher for 3 years.

    Welcome to ServSafe®

    Even if your not a professional, it will still benefit you enormously.
     
  7. kevin20422

    kevin20422

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    Thanks for all the great help people. I did not realize how important safety is, we have never had any problems but it is wise to be safe.

    Thanks for the toolbar tip too.
     
  8. mezzaluna

    mezzaluna

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    Cape Chef, I'll have to look into this. Of course, as a home cook, the largest batches I make are about 12 quarts. I've put a zip-top bag of ice in the middle or filled a large plastic tumbler with ice and give soups or stews a stir every few minutes. Those have worked, too. I cooled 6 quarts of chili in 30 minutes that way. I didn't know the temp should be 70F, but it was definitely cool to the touch- even chilled.

    I also cool individual casseroles, pot pies, etc. I make for my mother-in-law this way, placing the casseroles in a deep roasting pan, then adding water and ice. Sometimes I've put ice on a baking sheet, which I place over the casseroles too.
     
  9. deltadoc

    deltadoc

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    I've been making my own stock for almost 30 years now. I figure I'm slow boiling (just a few bubbles), for several hours, and then I just fit the lid on it, turn off the flame and let it cool on its own until I can fill up canning jars. I then sterilze the canning jars in a pressure canner. Never ever gotten sick doing this. Restaurants procedures would vary greatly from my home method as some of the response you've received would verify.

    On the other hand, I've baked pies from time to time and they're gelatinous, full of sugar, and I always have room cooled them, and even left them out for 1-2 days (if they last that long), and my mother and her mother and her mother, have done it always the same way. Nobody ever got sick, so I don't know.

    doc
     
  10. suzanne

    suzanne

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    Deltadoc, you and I do pretty much the same thing,* and no one has ever suffered for it -- but the truth is, the faster you cool food that needs to be cooled, the safer it is all around. I admit to leaving my stocks out on the counter to cool to room temp before refrigerating them. :blush: I mostly do it to allow the fat to rise to the top, so that when it chills, it will be easier to remove (I hate skimming). But I'm only making a couple of gallons at a time, or even less than a gallon. And I bring it back to a boil before putting it into smaller containers, which then cool a lot faster.

    *Although I usually leave the pot uncovered; putting a lid on it slows down cooling by keeping the heat trapped.

    A lot of us are talking from a restaurant or other professional kitchen background, where batches of stocks and such can be HUGE. And the bigger the batch, the longer it will take to cool -- which means it could be in the danger zone (40 to 140 degrees F) for way too long. Even having been boiled, it still could go bad eventually. And remember that time in the danger zone is cumulative: a couple of hours at first, then a few more after it's been reheated, and bingo, you're over the safety limit! :eek: We're just lucky! :lol:

    As a general rule, it's best to quick-chill proteins (including stocks) and starches, as they are most prone to spoilage. The reason deltadoc's pies are okay is because they are "full of sugar" (and probably pretty high in acid, too) and sugar and acids are preservatives. But I'll bet that if they last more than a few days out on the counter, they just might develop mold. That's why it's always best to eat up your pies fast. :lol: :lol:
     
  11. kyheirloomer

    kyheirloomer

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    And remember that time in the danger zone is cumulative: a couple of hours at first, then a few more after it's been reheated, and bingo, you're over the safety limit!

    You lost me here, Suzanne. Unless by reheated you merely mean rewarmed.

    If you bring the stock to 180+ degrees, and hold it there for ten minutes or more, it's precisely like starting fresh. (well, USDA says boil ten minutes. CDC says "sustained" heat of 175F) You'll have killed most of the baddies. Recool it quickly, get it in the fridge, and you're good to go.

    and no one has ever suffered for it and Never ever gotten sick doing this.

    Reminds me of a friend who still cans green beans using the open kettle method. She puts the beans (unblanched, btw) into the jars, fills with boiling water, puts on the lids, and turns the jars upside down. Those that seal go in her pantry. This is the same way her mother did it, and her mother before her. When called down on it she says, "ai't killed nobody yet."

    Maybe not. But I will not eat beans in her house.

    Although you can get away with it over and over again, so what? Doing things safely is always the best way.

    By the by, one of the few good things about this time of year is that you can cover the stock pot, put it outside, and let the winter temperature do the cooling. Obviously this isn't suggested for a professional environment.
     
  12. french fries

    french fries

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    Some bacteria are not killed by high heat or high cold - they are merely dormant while at those temperatures. Once you're back in the danger zone, they resume their multiplying. Therefore whether you boil of freeze foodstuff, for those bacteria, time spent in the danger zone is cumulative, whether it is before heating, after heating, before freezing, while thawing, etc etc...

    I agree with you that the "nobody died yet" observation is not really scientific. Tons of people drive without their safety belt or ride bikes without their helmets, and they're still alive. Doesn't mean much.
     
  13. nichole

    nichole

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    after reading different type of idea here. putting food while hot in the freezer wasn't a good idea. it was proven by me several times. i don't know if its true.
     
  14. petemccracken

    petemccracken

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    "...If you bring the stock to 180+ degrees, and hold it there for ten minutes or more, it's precisely like starting fresh. (well, USDA says boil ten minutes. CDC says "sustained" heat of 175F) You'll have killed most of the baddies. Recool it quickly, get it in the fridge, and you're good to go..."

    It is entirely possible that you might "kill" a majority of the "baddies", but chances are very high that you will NOT inactivate any "toxins" that the "baddies" may have produced!

    One should remember, the "timelines" specified in the Food Code do NOT guarantee that "baddies" will not grow or be present, only that the "levels" of the "baddies", and any toxins they may produce, will be low enough so as to, statistically speaking, not cause significant harm.

    And, YES, "time in the danger zone (40°F<??<135°F, at least in California) is cumulative, and starts whenever the food temperature falls in the danger zone.
     
  15. jock

    jock

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    I put my hot stock into rice bowls (1 1/2 cup capacity) to cool. Such a small quantity cools quickly allowing me to get it in the fridge in less than an hour.
     
  16. dc sunshine

    dc sunshine

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    Love this thread - glad no-one's killed anybody yet :D

    I only make small batches for the home. My method of choice for cooling (in winter only when its freezing cold) is to put the stock pot on a cold cement floor so it acts as a heat sink, and stick a frozen bottle of water into the stock itself.

    Works for me. Haven't killed anybody...yet - but the day is young.... :)
     
  17. cape chef

    cape chef

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