Controversial Question...

Discussion in 'The Late Night Cafe (off-topic)' started by chiffonade, May 8, 2002.

  1. chiffonade

    chiffonade

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    Why does it seem like more and more people are asking us to do their homework? I can condone consulting a bunch of chefs/cooking enthusiasts for assistance with a really tough question that a student has tried to work out for him/herself but became stumped over. However, I don't see this practice being any better than college students downloading papers from the net and claiming to have authored them.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    Heck Chiff, we've all wondered the same thing. I've just taken to pretending some of the posts aren't there. :blush: Bad of me I know. But I believe in exhausting all avenues before posting anything. And usually after I post Im STILL scouring trying to find the answer! If someone here just gives me a definition its not guaranteed that I will understand the ACTUAL process...so what's the point!?

    I'm not gonna give someone advice and say something stupid like "I know a great book called Webster's Dictionary". Id get in trouble here just for being THAT cranky. If Im cranky I just avoid the posts....if Im in a happy happy mood I may just answer one. It doesn't seem fair for ME to be the one beating myself over the head trying to solve someone else's problem. Especially if they aren't gonna lift a finger and just watch me complete their assignment. I don't even do that for my little sister and she'll be in college by September. :(

    Jodi
     
  3. kimmie

    kimmie

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    Thank you Chiffonade, great thread! You have just expressed my private thoughts. I concur with everything said so far! There's a fine line between doing their homework and acting as a guiding light...
     
  4. ziggy

    ziggy

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    hmmmm.....well....since i believe this comment is directed at me i guess i should respond.

    The questions I recently posted were the result of preparations I"m doing for a COMPETITION...not any sort of actual exam nor really having anything directly related to my studies at school. Since the representative from our state last year also attended my school she passed along the package of information she had(and was not required to return), which included what she was required to do so that I might have an idea of the types of things I should be practicing and preparing for.

    I have been most fortunate that the chefs at school have spent a great deal of time with me outside of class preparing for this. I average about 10 hours per week with them working on things that I might be expected to do. I've been trying to pick every piece of information from that their brains that I'm able to.

    There were two issues with which the chefs could not come to a conclusive answer:

    1) what a "parmentier cut" might be. Like Cape Chef and others here they had never heard of such a think in classical cuisine and were at a complete loss. My attempts to find the information came up with nothing, though apparently I was looking in the wrong place

    2) what in the world the people who designed last year's competencies were thinking asking for the types of things they wanted prepared from only one chicken. There isn't any right or wrong answer to this question - at least that was the conclusion I came to after discussing the matter for a couple hours with two of the head chefs at my school...and being impressed frequently with the knowledge oof the folsk on this site I was curious what others might think of the conundrum.

    So if I have overstepped the bounds of this forum I apologize. It was never my intention to have anyone do any of my work for me(though I am still quite grateful for marmalady for the help on the parmentier issue, as well as to everyone who took part in that discussion...i found it quite interesting and informative).

    I'm not a young person and have always taken my responsibilities to heart. I certainlyhave never in my life set out to do anything unethical such as stealing exams...if the impression is otherwise i apologize.

    i will return to lurking and refrain from posting as I have had learned a great deal on this site and for that am grateful.
     
  5. fodigger

    fodigger

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    I must have missed the thread you spoke of so I revisited it to see what all the talk was about. I too pulled out my skills book from j & W and there they were. If I remember correctly CC didn't you also so graduate from J & W about the same time as me I think. Don't tell me you either forgot or didn't have to take that God Aweful skills class???? Cutting the same cut over and over just to have the chef instructor pull out his ruler to find that you were a 16th of an inch off? I still laugh about it with my employees when they think I'm being to picky.
    Although the posts seemed to be about Ziggys post for me it was the flood of posts we had a couple of weeks ago in which I felt they were basically asking us to do their homework I did'nt feel that was the case w/ Ziggys post. Just my humble opinion.
     
  6. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    Had nothing to do with Ziggy! I don't even know WHAT exam Ziggy is talking about! :confused: Has more to do with the slew of questions we have been getting from people DEMANDING answers. :( Here's our question....ANSWER it!

    Shutting up now!

    Jodi
     
  7. athenaeus

    athenaeus

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    Dear Ziggy.

    Before you return to lurking as you said, because of a comment it was made, always look who made the comment.It matters who made the comment.

    :):):)
     
  8. chiffonade

    chiffonade

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    No, you would be wrong. Collecting information for a competition is different from asking for answers on a test. I'm referring to those posters who preface a question with, "I have an exam on...and need an answer."

    I was trying to avoid this but here's an example: "What is the acid in waffles." Crack open a book read the ingredients and figure out what the acid is! Don't ask someone to give you the answers. (I was foolish enough to suggest an answer before figuring out I was doing someone's homework.)

    Make no mistake about it...on tough catering assignments and for input, I've visited discussion boards many times! However, the preparation that resulted was ultimately performed by my hands. This is also true in your case...You can collect all the advice and input in the world, but your performance will be the final act by which you are judged. In the case of a student asking for an answer, that student will be credited with something put on paper that a teacher assumes came from the student's work. Not true.

    I don't consider clicking on a discussion board "research." Furthermore, what good will it do a student who has collected "answers" from people when it comes time to apply this information in a practical situation...They'd be sunk. I hope I've cleared up any misunderstanding that this was directed at you.
     
  9. chiffonade

    chiffonade

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    And by this you mean........?
     
  10. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs

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    Having been an instructor at the community college level, I have one real issue toward modern day students and it's a gross generalization: many don't seem motivated to pursue their questions by going to the library or engaging in group discussions. Our society is turning very ALLITERATE. Don't people read like they used to?
     
  11. cape chef

    cape chef

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    Fodigger,

    Yes you are correct about J&W, Motor skills was my very first class at school :)

    Ziggy,

    A couple things, first, I was not at a lose for parmentier, I made it quite clear of how it is applied in classic cuisine.

    We must really think why we log into cheftalk in the first place, to exchange ideas, be innovative and support our collueges and friends.
    The fact that last month we were hammered by both French and Austraian students sent a ripple through the whole site, and it was discussed in the moderators forum.

    The idea of doing someones homework was very clear to us that this would not be at all benifical to us, nor the student.

    I have learned a great deal from this site, and because of this site I have really enjoyed hitting the books and doing research.

    I will always stand for helping and teaching those in need of help (short of doing thier work)this site is much more then just recipes, it encompasses a much broader stroke of our industry. For this reason alone, we owe it to our friends and colleuges to assist them with there concerns or if they are not quite sure about something. It is important to "mark" your words when replying to a post, Ziggys post on Parmetier did one thing (of many) it opened a great discussion about classic cuts and preparations and how they have changed and how they are being taught in school. This to me was another great oppurtunity to learn and to share.

    If someone asked us in the recipe forum if we can share a great salsa recipe with them because they feel theres is not up to snuff, shouldn't we help them out?

    There are and where students on this site that posted excellent questions throughout there tenure in school, it was our pleasure to be invovled with there culinary evalution.

    I am not here to "give away" answers to students exams, but, I am always willing to read a post and make a personal judgement call.If the post is fair, I will help...
     
  12. phatch

    phatch Moderator Staff Member

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    I've ranted directly to students in other forums.

    Two things. First, a rule could be added to the joining agreement concerning students. Put it up at the top of the list so people have a chance to see it, even if they don't read the agreement.

    And a possible boilerplate answer to such questions.

    It could use some refining.

    Phil
     
  13. chiffonade

    chiffonade

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    :bounce: Leave it to Phil!

    Glad to hear so many of you agree about the "quickie" way students are trying to meet the requirements of their courses. Giving away the answers to a 20-something culinary student will do them just as much good as it did the something-teen math student in high school. Not a good idea, then or now.

    Again, I hope we can count on one another to collect and share ideas and techniques to be applied either professionally or at-home. Most importantly, through this broadening of our horizons, and by practical application, we learn.
     
  14. chrose

    chrose

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    Please help me.
    I am doing my thesis for school on dehydrated water. Where can I find a recipe that calls for dehydrated water and what is the ratio I should use? Also what should I do with the newly hydrated water?:D
     
  15. shawtycat

    shawtycat

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    Only you Chrose! :lol: :lol: Only You! :lol:
     
  16. ziggy

    ziggy

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    chiffonade - for whatever its worth when i read your original post i didn't believe it was actually directed at me and did understand why it had been posted. It was Funny Tummy's comment that prompted me to respond. I do remember the flood of questions not long ago( i post very infrequently but have read this board daily for nearly two years now)....I do not however remember any of them mentioning having materials from previous years. I do know that I specifically mentioned I was had been studying last year's compentencies while preparing...

    For this reason I responded here - to me it seemed my integrity was in question. As this has never been an issue for me personally or professionally I felt the need to speak my peace on the issue. As I mentioned I have never intentionally done anything that might be construed as unethical and it saddens me to think I might have been perceived in such a way.

    cape chef- my apologies, i chose my words poorly. your wealth of knowledge of course brought a lot to the discussion in question. I did not mean to imply you were clueless on the issue.
     
  17. isa

    isa

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    Chrose you are too funny!



    I did homeworks for too many years and I am not encline to do someone else's homework.
     
  18. mezzaluna

    mezzaluna

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    We are here to share by asking and answering. Ziggy, my take was that your inquiry fell into that category. :)

    It's the "Please answer ten questions about why you became a chef"- the full-blown interviews- that irk me, and the fundamental questions from culinary students. I forgive a curious amateur who's not working in a kitchen, being an amateur myself!

    I am a 27-year professional teacher, and those posts were most likely sprung from pure laziness. My motto is, "Don't do for someone what s/he can do for him/herself." (Apologies for the awkward syntax... :eek: ) My students groan, but they do the work and learn from their own efforts. I NEVER do their work for them!
     
  19. chiffonade

    chiffonade

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    ROFLMAO!! :lol:
     
  20. pete

    pete Moderator Staff Member

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    You know chrose, I am very disappointed in you. Someone with your knowledge and ability should really know how to rehydrate water!!! Again I can't express my disappointment. I really am in shock.:D :D :D

    Talking about rehydrating water, my staff seems quite good at making water reductions! They put a pot of water on, salt it, leave it to reduce until it is about 2/3's gone, then blanch their vegetables. You would be amazed at the difference in flavor when you do that!!!;)